Dec 03
What is Graphic Design?
2007 at 05.48 pm posted by Veerle
It seems to be embedded in human nature to try to label things to identify it. Labeling itself is not bad, but I’m talking about making things sound more fancy or smart. It’s already hard enough to get everybody on the same line when using well known terms. It’s all subjective and everybody has a different vision or interpretation.
Over exposure
We get bombarded with terms and definitions on a daily basis and new wordings are popping up regularly. That's why I want to focus on something that has been around for quite some time. Since it's been around that long it should be easy, right? So instead of reinventing new buzzwords, let's try to understand, define and describe those that have been around. Let's take Graphic Design for example.
What is Graphic Design?
My guess is that there will be many different interpretations. That's why I would like to run a little experiment here to see if I am right. What I am asking is to write down your thoughts of what Graphic Design is and means to you. However, there are a few rules: don't go Googling the term or look it up in a dictionary. I want what comes up in your mind without any influence from an outside source. So don't go cheating or looking at what others wrote :) I think when we compare it to the official definition it could prove to be interesting.
194served
1
Graphic design is a variant of art. Starting with Toulouse Lautrec, graphic design always had an explicit purpose or meaning besides being just artistic or pleasant to your senses (e.g. making people want to go somewhere/have something/do something/think something)
2
As my Jon Hicks desktop says, “Design is just lining things up.” But to me, Graphic Design is the art (yes it’s an art) of visual communication. It’s a little broad, but so is the field itself.
3
Graphic Design is simply solving visual communication problems.
4
I would define graphic design as “the arrangement of visual elements to communicate a message”.
I would define *good* graphic design in terms of establishing harmony between the elements in the design in a way that reinforces the message being communicated.
5
To design graphics, not designing a real object. It does not necessarily have anything to do with function, graphic design could be pure beauty.
..or I don’t know, this was harder than I thought.
6
Making words and pictures line up.
7
My definition of graphic design is anything that is purposefully designed and part of a still medium—web, print or other still graphics. It is usually part of a commercial endeavor and it seeks to communicate some other message beyond pure ascetic or feeling.
Things like Flash animations are not graphic design but rather motion design and are akin to the relationship between motion pictures and photography… a lot of the same principles apply but there are additional rules and skills required.
8
Graphic Design, to me, is the ability to take information of all kinds and display them in visually attractive ways, that also help to deliver the message to a user.
That’s the professional marketing side anyway. As Graphic Design evolves online and in the offline worlds I believe the definition will continue to be remolded by generations to come.
I mean, everyone is a Graphic Designer, just look at MySpace ;)
9
Graphic design is the practice of applying an appropriate and aesthetic a visual look to an object or concept.
Bad graphic designs are either not aesthetic or inappropriate in the context of the thing they are presenting.
10
The term Graphic design surely once wascreated to describe graphic works on paper on on other material. It always has some craftmenship and artwork runnig up with it’s meaning.
Today media in wich graphic design is used is more different that’s what it makes it so hard to describe. I would say even today with it’s wider range of topics it still means domnating a space by graphic artwork combined with some craftmanship. It is creating a creative surrounding of everything going much more into details than Webdesign i.e. which can only be to get a proper harmony of spaces on a screen depending on usability etc. Webdesign is a basis on which graphic design can create a deeper decoration or even dominate the appearance.
It is the same with former Printing. The classic craftman printing could be strictly following the rules of good temporary taste but with graphic design it’s quite more: from individuality up to creating a brand. This still is graphic design I think.
11
Visual communication.
12
In my opinion it’s about communicating information to other human beings. It’s a way of presenting this information visually in a pleasant, (anti-) structural, ... way. Although it’s not always a means to an end: sometimes it’s all about the design itself (meta), but I guess that would be art, because there is no defining line between art and (functional) graphic design.
13
Graphic Design to me is making things easier for other to observe and understand. Taking an idea and turning it into a picture. A picture it worth a thousand words after all.
14
Devising ways to visually present and organize information.
15
I consider graphic design to be about making data and information visually appealing. Something that mixes art and information to serve a purpose—mostly advertising whether its for a commercial product or grassroots activism.
16
To me it’s simple in definition, using visual elements to convey an emotion or statement.
17
I would say graphic design is any design that uses some graphic elements barring background-color CSS property whic - IMHO - is not an element of graphics.
So for me, graphic design is every design where I find something else than just text. But it’s hard to label websites with this term: Is it http://www.jakpsatweb.cz/ a graphic design or not?
18
Graphic design is the purposeful solving of typical problems—be it clothing, books, advertising, web design, etc.—in the most creative and aesthetic way possible.
19
To me, it’s the purposeful organization of information with varying degrees of line, texture, shapes, and all the other things we designers do to beautify our work. The bottom line is that it’s the communication of information for the intended audience that defines what I do.
20
Graphic design is an intentional collection of pixels to serve as a visual aid.
21
To me “Graphic Design” is the process of *visual* communication. It’s a pretty broad definition and either envelopes or intersects lots of other disciplines.
On a practical level, if you’re using images, layout and typography to communicate something you’re doing graphic design.
Again, pretty broad, but… :)
22
for me graphic design is just a way to communicate with colors, images, layout, fonts, white space on paper, screen or film.
23
Graphic Design is the art of creating visual representations of informations.
24
Hhm. In my opinion, it is designing something visual to convey a message to an audience. I think? Like designing corporate identities, magazine layouts, interface, even t-shirts. I think they are all part of graphic design. So yeah. I’ll stop rambling.
25
Just spontaneous as you ask Veerle, I think graphic design is:
‘Translating any kind of communication into a clear visual experience’
And thanks for a real inspiring blog
26
Mmm.
Well, my first stab really is more of a definition of “layout”:
*Layout* refers to the intentional and artistic placement of visual elements on a two-dimensional plane.
*Graphic design* encompasses a bit more: the rationale behind the intention and the art. It also usually includes the creation of some or all of the visual elements themselves.
27
The first thing that comes to mind when I think “What is graphic design” is “graphic communications” and I think of it as a way to communicate an idea to people graphically. However generic it sounds I think this is my opinion in a first-thought kind of way.
28
Hi! I think Graphic Design is a discipline that helps interpersonal communication. It helps people explain a message, visually, through color, forms and type.
It is no decoration, nor art. It is design.
Thank you! Excuse my english :)
29
I think “Graphic Design” is putting predefined things, the content, in a easy understandable, logical and beautiful way together.
It doesn’t have to be a totally new idea. It doesn’t have to be trendy, and it doesn’t have to make people raising their eyebrows in surprise.
It should “just” transport the information in a good way from the product to the reader.
30
graphic design for me anyway is using visual assets (imagery, typography) to communicate some sort of message, sort of like a visual language ...
31
I think the definition is simple and very encompassing. Using visual clues strategically to communicate a specific message. This can include fonts, colors, textures, images or anything else that strikes a feeling visually. It differs from art in that the artist is trying to get a clear message out where a “fine art” piece is not as explicit. Graphic design is the square to fine art’s rectangle.
32
Graphic design is the skill of taking pieces of art, other design, typography and general pop culture and organizing them on a medium or mediums to convey the intended message.
33
Graphic design is visual communication. The movement and styling of graphics and types to communicate a message to an audience.
34
An ultra simplistic definition of Graphic Design:
The art of placing images and text in such a way that the overall result is aesthetically pleasing as well as informative.
It differs from digital art in that Graphic Design is intended to inform as well as entertain (not that art cant also inform).
35
Graphic design is the arrangement and integration of visual elements — perceived or deemed necessary — composed for the purpose of communicating an idea or message.
36
Graphic Design is a loosely-defined visual language in which colors, shapes, textures, and/or type are combined to create a structure that communicates ideas in a recognizable, easily digestible way for the intended audience.
37
the visual manipulation of symbols through which the inexhaustable energies of the universe pour
38
I think graphic design is the informed but un-predictable arrangement of images and type to communicate a congruent message :-)
It’s also a very rewarding and enjoyable way to make a living!
39
Long time lurker, first time commenter!
For me graphic design is visually communicating thoughts and ideas and finding visual solutions to interaction problems.
40
Graphic design is, in my opinion, designing something, a graphic, for later and displaying it in some sort of media, like the web. Building something can be a team effort and for me, the graphical part of it is called the graphical design. (Well duh^^ ) You cannot build a website with a person that knows about Photoshop or Illustrator alone. So, graphical design, for me, is the graphical element in a project.
41
i tend to think of graphic design as finding solutions to problems, then executing the solution. I suppose the problem with this definition is that it sort of leaves out the graphic and the design part....so perhaps it should be more like this:
A graphic designer is a person finds solutions to problems (often driven by marketing needs). Graphic design then is the visual (graphic), well thought out and structured (design) parts of the solution to the problem.
42
Graphic design is a visual balancing act.
Balancing the wishes and needs of the client with your need to create something new, different and beautiful with the desired message/feeling/target audience in mind.
huh… where did that come from?
Great experiment Veerle
43
Graphic - Any visual art form/media: Illustration, Painting, Photography, Web, Sculpture, Videography, etc., and most uniquely Typography.
Design - Thoughtful process of placing elements with respect to order, contrast, balance, scale, texture, space, shape, light, color, etc.
The interesting part is that Graphic Design can be implemented in so many mediums, making it difficult to quantify. I think of “Graphic Designer” as the individual(s) that pull it all together. Some GDers have the ability to paint, some to write programming code, others have photography or eloquent copy in their back pocket. But they all should be able to deliberately compose the communication intended. Value is then placed on their creation, just as with any other art.
44
Graphic Design is to create graphical messages that can be read by a specific target, sometimes universally. Graphic Design is to build visual structures that communicate, all into aestetics. Graphic Design is function over form.
45
It is the art of creating a simple yet inspiring representation of a concept or object to help users understanding and memorization.
46
Mine is probably rather vague, but here goes.
Graphic Design: The act of organizing information and conveying a specific message or messages in an aesthetically pleasing way.
47
Graphic design is another form of art. When I think of graphic design I immediately think of web design, though it’s not limited to web design. It’s digital. It’s typography, gradients, colors, vectors....it’s everything you can think to use in photoshop. It’s real and it’s fake. It’s abstract and then again it’s not. Graphic design is personal and digital.
48
Is what I do. My job. :)
49
My take…
Graphic design is commissioned (paid or probono) visual communication with a key central messaging/branding. It is utilized in packaging, billboards, ads, multimedia and software.
50
Graphic design is a method of communication and an art that uses primarily visual means to reach out to a prospective audience in any type of medium (print, tv, internet.)
Personally, graphic design is a method of taking someone’s concepts and transforming them into a piece of art that both respects the original vision of the client as well as making an impact on the people who will access, view, or have interaction with the art.
Can you tell I majored in English at university?
51
Catching the eye without distracting.
52
If it’s something people deal with regularly I want the design to be just right. If that design has to do with the look, or how good my customer can process the data I’m giving to him, it’s graphic design.
I’m talking about websites or web applications right now: Everything that hasn’t to do with the pure data backend, and how to calculate things on this data, is graphic design. It’s processing data so the user can analyze it better and faster.
That processing is the way we display data. I think it’s even the decision if an article is spread to three different pages on a newspaper website (just to give an example of where I think graphic design ends). But of course it’s color, contrast, style and all that boring stuff everybody considers design.
53
Graphic design is the process of arranging a set of visual elements into a certain configuration that communicates an idea or message, that is done without reference to its arranger. This is in contrast to creating visual art, which is similar, yet seeks to exemplify the “arranger”.
That’s my two cents.
54
Graphic design to me is the a way to please the eyes through colors, shapes, and other primal things that all people no matter their race, gender, age. It is more then expression, to some people it is life.
55
To me graphic design is art created with a computer.
56
I had some musings about “Science” (my main field) recently and checked out many articles about it. It was rather refreshing - hope this is for you too!
Graphic Design: the creation of images for use in print or web.
At it’s simplest form; I could perhaps try to define creation of images as being from other images, lines and shapes… or something like that :P
57
to me, graphic design is print related, as opposed to interactive. i would see a graphic designer to be someone who designs brochures or packaging NOT web sites or flash animation. graphic design is laying out images and/or type to be aesthetically pleasing.
58
The creation and manipulation of graphical images/illustrations, usually digital.
59
It’s manipulating colours and shapes on the surfaces of things (print/web pages/lifejackets) to convey a message, be that a feeling, attitude, instruction or an advert.
And after all that, make it look damn hot.
60
It’s the things that you see when you close your eyes when you think of the perfect way to visualize your feelings.
61
Graphic design is the application of the graphic arts to creating effective graphics and graphical components. It is mostly concerned with pieces rather than the whole. Creating logos, buttons or decorations would be examples of typical tasks. It may be considered part of higher level design disciplines but it’s scope is still limited to the production of art assets.
62
Attempting to inform and/or entice an audience through the placement and construction of visual elements in a predefined set of constraints.
63
Well what I tell my friends that I do is that I make things prettier and draw stuff.
But actually there is a lot more of idea and thought process behind that, from corporate identities, posters or just brochure.
They are all just getting the idea best across visually.
64
In my opinion, graphic design is both art and science. Based on precise science (the golden ratio for example) as well as free interpretation and personal creativity, we use graphic design as a tool helping us share our ideas, concepts, visions and thoughts.
65
Graphic design is a way of expressing our feelings. It’s also a way to influence on other’s people feelings.
Personally for me it’s a way for breaking out of average. I truly hope that I’ll be same day good as you are.
66
it’s bound to be something simple. how about: ‘communication of information visually in a 2-dimensional space’.
67
Graphic design is for me something that:
- is made by human (I mean it seriously, have you seen pictures from program Apophysis?)
- evoke some feelings, asociations or emotions
- don’t has to have any deeper sense
- can be seen (do you think that graphic design is also something that you can ONLY touch or ONLY smell? I don’t think so)
..well I can’t think out any more now…
I’m curious about the results!
68
Design is making things work.
When you’re talking about design and especially Graphic Design it’s making things work for your target audience. It’s not creating beautiful images, or interfaces, but it’s making the images or interfaces work.
Your example is Graphic Design. It refers to the question you’re asking us. It’s created to accompany the actual message. Graphic Design isn’t about the twrily things, the gradients, the fumbly bits. But it’s about the message. It’s about making it “work”,
Of course you might argue that the new desktop background you created is design too. But that’s not design. It’s art. Sure, it conveys a message, but the design isn’t created to accompany the message or - for that matter - make it work.
That’s how I think about Graphic Design.
69
Graphic Design is synergistic visionary solutionizing to maximalize efficiencies in the brand deployment systems realm creating end-user experience deliverables with an end-to-end goal of increasing ROI.
natch.
70
graphic design is using copy, color, and imagery to communicate an idea.
71
I’ve worked in print design for nearly 15 years (and then later web design) and over that time I guess I’ve done work that some would consider to be that of a graphic designer, but I’ve never really thought of myself like that, I guess because I came to design via the ‘back door’ (learning the skills on the job while employed to do something else) and didn’t have any formal design training.
So I guess I’ve always thought that graphic design involved some sort of creation of images, illustrations etc. - something I didn’t get involved with much as I was mainly doing layouts (newspapers, books, catalogues) and working with other people’s text and images until I started working in web design.
72
What’s a Graphic? Conveying idea of something using graphical elements (images, text etc.) to a viewer.
Then, what’s Graphic Design? Making the Graphic better so that the idea is easily conveyed. :)
I didn’t checked the official definition, but I hope my version too defines it.
--
73
Graphic Design is visual communication. It is the application of visual data organization into a cohesive, aesthetic whole.
74
Graphic design = visual problem solving with a dash of style
75
For me, is an visual expression of shapes and colors mostly with harmony, in order to represent an idea or message.
76
Graphic design is essentially the skill of visually presenting information so as to make the content both more compelling and comprehensible.
77
Graphic Design is the enhancement of communication from sender to recipient.
78
Graphic design is expressing ideas/ messages visually through pictures, shapes, colors etc.
(this is one of those questions that the more I answer, the more wrong I think I may get!)
79
DESIGN is the intensional arrangement of space and matter.
GOOD DESIGN packages both space and matter to unfold in a beneficial way.
GRAPHIC DESIGN is the intensional visual arrangement of space and matter, typically formed to convey messages or meaning.
Well, that’s my attempt! I’d love to read the others as I’m working on a phd in design at the moment. Thanks for the neat idea Veerle! :)
80
In my mind, graphic design is exactly like it sounds.
It’s the process of designing graphics. This can mean taking premade graphics and arranging them or literally making the graphics. The focus being on design though.
Just like an industrial designer designs physical products, like a stapler or an iPod, a graphic designer designs graphics.
It is the most logical form of graphic art. It is within the same realm as mathematics, because there can be an art to it, but there are some fundamental rules in place that, if followed correctly, will produce functional and even professional work. However, like Einstein coming up with e=mc^2, there is creativity required.
The work produced is more a solution than a piece that you’d hang on your wall.
81
Visual communication of an idea, a feeling, a lifestyle, a brand… now I feel like I’m in media sales!
82
What is graphic-design?
One thing first, it’s kinda funny how we use a term every day and when it comes to discribing it and putting it in a clear definition one sits infront his Monitor and has to arrange the thoughts.
For me Graphic Design is above all a process! It’s not just the result, it is a path with many junctions and at every single one there is a decision to make. Perhaps a little bit far-streched but I like it :)
It is the conditioning of information in a creative visual way. Which tools we use to achive that goal is up to us - but we always have the target in mind and think of the needs it’s supposed to satisfy. (You wouldn’t use the zapfino to write “US-Army” or “Bundeswehr” nor would you color it in pink - besides it would generate a great contrast between meaning and first visual impression)
Done without wikiedia ;)
BTW: Thank your veerle for the great topic!
Cheers Adrian
83
In my mind graphic design at all is making harmony while presenting something. One of the most important components of graphic design is the concept - the idea which is the appropriate/convincing way to present the thing.
The style, the look and feel, the colors, the shapes and many more are the tools in our hands while making this harmony.
84
To me, it’s a combination of shape, colour and typography, serving a specific goal, meeting the need of my customers.
85
graphic design: converting need(s) in art;art obeying needs
86
Graphic design? a tease for the eye
87
Graphic Design is the process of expressing something in a form other than simply words. By adding (or indeed solely using) graphical elements, a designer can add more meaning than simply type, or can draw attention to the type.
88
I’m glad you withheld the comments until now! (I was shocked to see 30 emails in my inbox after a couple of minutes!) Great ideas I realise now that my (above) definition only addressed the “what”, or the “how” without the “why”. I could use my given definition for art as well, but for graphic design the element of communication is important.
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Communicating information in a way that is appropriate to the information being communicated.
90
Graphic design: the two dimensional expression of a solution defined by four-dimensional beings. The translating from the four dimensions of real life to the two dimensions of a graphic is where the artistry comes in.
Don’t take this the wrong way, it’s truly an amazing skill to have, and I truly admire your work, Veerle.
91
Graphic design is using colors, type, shapes and content to pass a message on to your audience.
92
Graphic design: the art and techniques of creating artwork that transmits information and feelings.
93
John said:
An industrial designer would say: Design has to visualize all the features of the product - it’s strength, weight, etc. So what’s the diffenece to graphic design ;-)
94
Graphic design is conveying a message using visual media!
nice initiative Veerle hehe…
95
Is graphic design and art one and the same thing?
Both are a composition of colors, type, shapes, ...
Both try to communicate a message.
I think that the big difference between the two is that art doesn’t need to be appealing or beautiful. Graphic design in fact does. Graphic design has to be pleasant to watch to. That’s the function of graphic design and therefore sets it apart from the rest.
Sometimes it’s easier to say what graphic design is not. And sometimes it’s easier to compare graphic design to something similar.
Sometimes you see things better by not directly looking at them.
Oh crap, there are already a million things in my head that break down my own defenition!
Maybe, Veerle, your comment page is the definition.
96
I agree with John. On the one hand, graphic Design is a tool to solve communication problems: getting a message across implies structure, rhythm, noise minimisation, hierarchy, etc. Graphic design (presentation) comes in support of content / structure / interactivity and strategy.
But, on the other hand, graphic design (presentation layer) has also a value per se. Of course, we tend to prefer harmonious proportions and colours. But more than that, like the man who washed his car and had the feeling it worked better afterwards, we tend to forgive more things to a beautiful website. The design of a website (or of any other medium) has an influence on the perception we have of its quality.
Sorry for being lengthy on this one. Great topic, Veerle.
97
To me it’s visual communication.
98
Good post. I’m bored of buzzwords and think that clients should be able to reduce their bill by €10 for every buzzword used in a meeting. Clear and concise communication is an art and the web design/development community should be proud to practice it. Anyway enough of the rant...here’s my attempt at a definition.
Graphic design involves creating scrumptious print materials and web pages within a specific set of constraints. These constraints can include a colour palette, set of fonts, photography and illustrations which are relevant to the image your client wants to portray.
99
Martijn said:
If i ask you to design, for example, a poster for a very dark horror movie? It’s still considered graphic design and it might use good composition rules, but it might not be beautiful, yet it will still convey its message effectively. On the other hand, and that’s where a proper differentiation might be, if you look at a Francis Bacon painting, it’s dark, some people might not find it beautiful at all, but it still conveys emotions. Only in this case, the meaning that the audience gets is different from one person to the other.
Maybe we could say that graphic design expresses its content directly, so that it is understood (ideally) by everyone in the same way, whereas art expresses it indirectly, i.e. the understanding of the content is not planned, but left to the audience. Of course, that’s personal, but i’d be curious to hear what others have to say about the difference between art and graphic design, especially since it gets very blurry sometimes.
100
Visual desire
101
To me, Graphic design is about making form & function look nice. Pleasing to the eye, and to entice the user.
102
Writing a note on a post-it is graphic design, whether you are or not a graphic designer. I like to think that, as a professional, i do it better then the majority of people.
Is it art? sometimes.
103
Personally I consider graphic design to be for computers. It may start out as a sketch or drawing, but eventually it’s purpose is to be in a computer and from there it can be printed out or whatever.
Point being. All Graphic Design IMO has a computer involved in the process in some way.
104
I agree with the people that have said that Graphic Design is about visually communicating a message. But I think we can be more specific than that as other forms of communication, such as sign language, or even body language, also fits under this same definition.
So I would say that Graphic Design is a way of visually communicating a message through a variety of media.
Whether it’s done badly or not is irrelevant!
105
I think that Graphic Design is the convergence of illustration, photography, and design.
106
Not to sound cynical but lately I feel that more people define graphic design as something easy to do and aesthetic eye candy. Personally I feel graphic design is the effective use of strong composition, grids and white space to compliment visual elements.
107
The question reminds me of of 5th grade when the teacher asked “What is art?”
...and the girl next to me said it is fart without the “f”
...I guess that would make it “raphic esign” without the gd....but that is dumb.
...So without thinking too much, it a visual puzzle to communicate. Unless there is nobody there to see it.
108
When I first heard of Graphic Design I thought it was art created on a computer!
Now I’m not really sure since so many company’s hiring “graphic designers” seem to look for people who know everything about computers! I’ve seen job listing that should have been listed as looking for computer programmers not graphic designers.
109
Graphic design consists in organizing elements according to some constraints such as size, space, colors, proportions, harmony, ..., in order to make sense, thus to give pleasure.
110
I think Graphic Design is art used to entice.
111
GregOne said:
Indeed, the tone will be dark and maybe horrifying but in the end it will still be an appealing horror poster!
If you wouldn’t be too scared to go watch the movie, you maybe would go, just because of the poster. But I can try to paint you something form the darkest places of my mind, not that I have any, and I wouldn’t feel the need to make it visually appealing. It probably would be ugly as hell but still reflecting what I feel.
112
Graphic Design no more than traditional art’s paper mache.
113
Graphic design is creating visual art for EVERYBODY to understand.
(as I NOW feel it.)
114
GregOne said:
This is also something I can agree with ...
115
I’m a little surprised that I’ve only seen it mentioned a few times so far, but I think the core of graphic design is about solving problems—visually and with typography.
The degree to which always depends on the project, but jobs often compose of working with what you’ve got. You have to use their logo, a certain color palette, a certain image, a certain message, and work with the clients own assumptions about what “works”.
That’s what graphic design is—that challenge of taking what you’re presented with and producing a piece that visually communicates your clients goal effectively and elegantly.
116
Graphic Design is art created on the computer.
Veerle - you’re an artist :) A good one at that.
117
Graphic design is the organization of textual and graphical elements to aid in understanding or solve a problem. It is not art.
118
Graphic Design beautifully, appropriately and carefully upholds the content, emotions and experience it represents.
119
I believe graphic design is something you actually cannot define. You just try to make it as good looking and functional as possible depending on its audience.
120
Graphic design is communicating through visual media. It’s that simple.
121
Graphic design = visual message
122
I’ll have to reach a little further to give my deffinition of graphic design.
In my oppinion graphic art is an act where the artist trys to materialize his vision of beauty or expression. The result has to be deeply pleasing for himself, but not for anyone else. That’s pro