Apr 14
The Post HTML era
2004 at 02.33 am posted by Veerle Pieters
I kind of have the feeling that people tend to use a lot of new buzz words these days and I wonder why all the fuzz? Why not keeping it simple for people to understand what exactly they mean? Do they just want to impress people who aren’t much into internet and computers? Or is it to impress the client?
Say, if I use all those new words he might think "oh boy he/she definitely knows what she/he's talking about". Just cut the crap and keep it simple is my motto. Be honest and keep it modest, I hate all the bla bla bla, it's bragging in my opinion. And most of the time it's like selling "air" and one day that won't be enough. Your quality is what counts at the end. I just need a chance to show what I create and in a lot of cases it doesn't really need much words, or at least not much of those buzz words to impress a client. And if I use them I try to keep it simple and be myself.
I've never heard of the term Post HTML until I read an article about it. It seems that Post HTML is the way to go, it's a technology that is conquering the Internet. Post HTML is actually a Rich Internet Application website made in Flash. I'm familiar with this ('push') technology where the visitor gets lots of interaction, where he can try things out. It's mostly used in product sites. And yes it is very popular and I believe it has lots of potential and possibilities. But after reading the entire article I got the same feeling of way back in the early days of Internet where people are looking into the future and were making all sorts of assumptions on how the Internet will be.... I guess it was all a bit exaggerated (like for instance the speed of the internet and the use of video etc.), no? In 1997-1998 you got the feeling that things out of Star Trek would be possible, but in fact not all that has changed since then.
A few Post HTML examples:
- Nike
- Mini USA, (Try build your own)
- Eccentris, a piece of artwork based on experience design
- Alien vs Predator
Marketeers say that people will likely choose a product based on the idea and story behind that product. Our buying behavior will be more and more based on emotions rather then on pure rational thinking. A perfect example of emotional buying is the trend where seeing in brands like Scapa Sports (don't mind the design, it doesn't fit the image at all). The use of logos is back and it's trendy to wear them. That's why these kind of interactive (Post HTML) product websites are being a success. Hm, if I think about my Apple products this makes kind of sense to me :-)
One thing I often notice in these kind of websites is the lack of functionality to navigate in between sections. A simple back is often lost or hard to find. A perfect example of what I mean is the Nike website. Yes it's large and has several sections but still it was confusing to me. Let's take a look. So got to nike.com/main.html and choose Europe, English and nikerunning.com. You get an orange page with a picture but you can't click on it and there is no "Enter" button etc. At the bottom you have two things "Nikerunning Global Home" and "Nikerunning.com Europe" If you click on the first one you get another window with a Flash to choose from, so go ahead and choose "English and Europe". Yes back where you started from! So only one choice left the "Nikerunning.com Europe" link. When you click, this seems the right one but oh boy what a hassle since we already have chosen Europe at the beginning of all this. Do you know what I mean? This is not user friendly! Why do we need the extra click on the orange page, why not link directly to the correct page? It's one click too much and too confusing. This is not a one off, there are several similar cases.
Conclusion
Until all this is "solved" and made easier, even Post HTML showcases won't conquer the Internet like some people seem to think. Functionality is still one of the most important factors in a website, they got to have both to be perfect. But don't get me wrong here, the Nike websites are always a piece of art, but a pretty face is not enough to make it entirely perfect. There are of course Post HTML sites that have both good looks and nice functionality, like the Eccentris website. But I guess the deeper the structure the harder to keep it in tact. The Nike website has such a deep structure and it has several sub-sites that it becomes a real challenge to keep it simple. With such large sites it's always a good idea to test the site with inexperienced users. My money is on the hybrid model websites that both use HTML (XHTML), CSS and Flash. Post HTML can be useful and will serve its purpose, but I don't see it taking over the entire web.
Wow did I wrote that? Guess I got a top moment there ;-)
16served
1
Veerle, you are right, ‘Post HTML’ is just another buzz word and a lousy one too. Why? Because it suggests that it is something succeeding or following HTML as a technology, which of course is non sense.
Like you said ‘Post HTML’ are fancy words for 100% Flash websites or Rich Internet Applications. Both are nothing new of course, Flash is already around for a while and people were already talking about RIAs when the first Java Applets hit the web.
Yes I do believe in the profecy of converging media and that computer applications, television and the web slowly will merge. And I do believe that HTML will and Flash can play a role in that scenario and that one of both will be used more depending of what kind of goal you want to achieve.
But currently ‘Post HTML’ is the wrong word for the job, because it will raise the expectation that it is a technology that has passed HTML while the reality is that it describes nothing else than HTML websites with one of more embedded objects that are read by a browser plugin.
BTW, Asterisk’s Flash - Your Take gives a nice overview of the problems 100% Flash sites suffer from.
2
Gee, Veerle, this is post HTML after all. Web’s main purpose is information; note, sometimes a picture is worth more than one hundred words. Flash has its place and XHTML written with compliance to usability and accessability requirements has its own. Don’t mix those things together as they’re uncompareable (in…?).
Sites you listed links to are not supposed to be simple, as somewhere at the end of you entry stated. They’re designed as be rich, eye-catching and breath-taking webpages. Heck, those are commercial sites and serve as advertisements and portfolios.
Once I disliked flash, yes. But it seems I got used to it as I was bumping into so nicely deisgned pages that I literally was catching myself gazing at the screen and browsing through the content. Praise, marvel or turn off the plugin. shrug
Are you trying to be one of those bitter webdesigner whose sites are spreaded among the Web?
3
@Lukasz, did you read my article well? I’m not against those flash websites at all and I’m not comparing CSS/XHTML sites with Flash. I’m talking about all those buzz words, like Post HTML for example. Many technology journalists seem to think that the web will soon be filled with all Post HTML websites, and they’re creating some kind of believe that everything else doesn’t matter anymore. And that’s what I dislike, those hypes. Just like Bobby commented here (2nd paragraph). They’re nothing more then Flash websites, so why call them suddenly Post HTML.
As I also stated at the end of my article, they are pieces of art, and I LIKE them. But there are some disadvantages in some cases, just like Nike’s complexity of navigation. You may not loose the importance of functionality because of this.
And I’m NOT bitter at all! Flash is great if used wisely, I love Flash ;-)
4
@Veerle, maybe I haven’t followed the main point (and I still claim that a small comparision of both techniques was made :-)
As far as the buzz thingie is concerned: at the moment is just the Flash techology that is used among the Web (true?). But Post HTML term betokens that in the future not only Flash will be utilized on the web. I am not that acquainted with modern technologies but I assume that new approaches will be introduced within an year.
Still, the question arises: when it comes only to the visual aspect of site, does functionality really matters that much?
5
@Lukasz: You said:
“But Post HTML term betokens that in the future not only Flash will be utilized on the web.“
Post HTML is a fancy word for 100% Flash websites or Rich Internet Applications. That’s what this discussion is about, the use of those fancy words for something that has been around for years.
Still, the question arises: when it comes only to the visual aspect of site, does functionality really matters that much?
That shouldn’t be a question. Functionality matters always! A pretty face is useless if you need 10 min to figure out where to click next.
6
@Veerle: Glad you said this. Now, if I follow one of your categories link, how do I get back to the main page? :-P
7
@Lukasz, I found this a bit silly of you. I’m actually aware of the fact that there isn’t always a home link on each page, but that’s because I use the “native” templates of pMachine and I don’t want to waste a lot of time right now (which I don’t have much already) on this, since I’ll be moving to Expression Engine soon. And all my free time goes to this development. But be sure that all flaws will be addressed in my new blog.
8
@Veerle, OK, what should I say then… In Poland, we say that a shoemaker does not have his own to shoes to wear.
Your blog is nicely designed and the content follows the look. I really enjoy reading it. Nevertheless, IMO, remarks about the usability, accessibility and other “ities” should be reflected by the way site, these remarks are published on, is designed (unless I am seriously mislead). I don’t deny your skills nor attribution but all that is left to say is cura te ipsum.
Ending this thread, I haven’t followed the main point of your entry. Kindly forgive me this.
9
Lukakz: Jesus man before starting to use Latin and saying that I have “to heal myself” look at what I have to say a little better. I’m aware that this little issue exists and it will be fixed in a future version with Expression Engine. Sorry, but I just think you’re exaggerating now.
I don’t want to spend my time on this because this is generated by pMachine and looking into this costs time. All my time that I have goes into the new design. And I also never claimed that I am an expert, I just try to give an opinion and a way how I would try to do it, that’s all.
10
I hope the two of you don’t mind me barging in on this ‘sympathetic’ conversation. I have read the article Veerle is referring to and it seems to me that Post HTML is one of the worst Buzzwords the Internet has ever seen. For one, with RIA (Rich Internet App) this phenomenon is already covered. So why bother with a new and pretentious definition that doesn’t have any descriptive value? Secondly, the name of term is a very poor choice, since we are progressing to a Post HTML phase already with webstandards, CSS and especially XHTML and even XML.
It seems very unnecessary to me to compare the content of this discussion to shortcomings of blogging software that has been used to generate this site. Especially because this site (and this stretches to its creator Veerle) is both lighthearted and critical, but even more personal and small scale.
Even the greatest chef should be granted the freedom of grabbing the Ketchup bottle at his own dinner table, now isn’t he! Or she?
@Lukasz: with all due respect, it seems to me that you are wasting your time on presenting yourself as a critical thinker here instead of being productive.
11
@Reinier, couldn’t have said it better. That’s exactly the point I’m trying to make all day. ... and I don’t mind you barging in ;-)
12
Pax, pax, monsieurs.
@Veerle, I didn’t mean to insult and hope that no offence was taken. However, slowly I am becoming alergic to that continous rant about poorly designed commercial sites, little flaws in accessibility and other details one wouldn’t bother about unless someone directly pointed finger and yelled “an imperfection”. And since I’m rather outspoken and straightforward, I let my thoughts fly out of my mind causing a little havong among (even virtual) acquaintance. Please, forgive me that ‘defect’ and keep in mind that I do enjoy your weblog. /me bows: thank you.
@Reinier: I am not here to be productive nor critical thinker. Why should I, anyway? ;-)
13
@Lukasz: ;-) taken.
On topic: Purism is as bad as consciously neglecting the relevance of standards IMHO.
14
@Lukasz, I agree with Reinier, if we just ignore and just sit back and do nothing then what’s the point. Isn’t it better to tell the world about it. Look at the way the use of web standards are becoming popular. How do you think it all started? I believe that if we read about it and pick up some good tips here and there, some things to keep in mind, advice of all kinds (not only about design or just CSS), that at the end we all get better and are continuing to improve ourselves.
I strongly believe that since I read about using web standards, about accessibility, about whether to use Flash y/n, all sorts of matter that involves the design of a website that I keep more points of view in consideration than before. Since I’m a designer, I rather see things more from a design point of view and now I try to see it all much broader.
15
I agree, IMHO It is all about improvement! I tend not to separate commercial or non-commercial sites (or customers). Using Flash or not, I try to improve accessability and follow (new) standards - just to make better sites.
16
don’t agree. the nike.com page is a typical large-company structure. global homepage/pick region/select language/select site… and what you are referring to, the orange page, is the EXIT page! the main site loads on top of that one. A great site I must say, and since I’m in internet business I must say they have done an excellent job…