Aug 28
Smoking in restaurants
2006 at 05.55 pm posted by Veerle Pieters
When I was playing tour guide for some friends here in Belgium, I was really disappointed that I couldn’t tell them that Belgium has a strict smoke free policy. When reading Peter Forret’s post from today I got reminded of something that me and my friends discussed also. I wasn’t sure anymore when the law of non-smoking restaurants would be in place so that one can really enjoy a meal without being disturbed by people who don’t give a damn about you still eating.
125 days to go
Just like Peter, I'm also counting down the days until January 1st 2007. From that day onward it will be forbidden to smoke in Belgian restaurants. We had to put up with it long enough! So far the good news because in our little country there is always a but...
Not in bars, cafes and snack-bars
You've guessed it, there is a compromise! Why in God's name can people still smoke there? According to the minister of public health it's because those places have a social and cultural role to fulfill. Excuse me? What's social about smelling like an ashtray when you get home and your longs full of smoke that you didn't want in the first place? So in those places it will still be allowed to smoke for a period of minimum 3 years. After that they can ask for a renewal. I don't know about you, but I am all for a total ban of smoking in all places. It's disturbing to read that more than 2,500 people die each year because of passive smoking in Belgium. That figure is more than double the amount of people that die from traffic accidents. So we can only hope that our government will see the light some day and wises up a bit and vote for a total ban. I'm sure many people would enjoy a smoke-free night out.
135served
1
And no more clothes smelling disgusting!!
2
I agree, smoking is a filthy habit, the worst thing is that most smokers just don’t have any respect for other people. When you ask them to put out their cigarettes they’ll just laugh or turn their back at you.
I can’t even stand the smoke anymore, it really gets to me, I often have to leave cafés to get some fresh air, and don’t get me started the day after a party, ..
(Most) Smokers are just asocial and non-smokers are being suppressed because of money reasons (taxes on tabaco) and stupid excuses.
3
In all honesty, it’s time this witch hunt is comes to an end. Yeah, I’ll probably get blasted because I called the crusade against smoking a witch hunt, but that’s exactly what it is.
And yes, I don’t smoke…
4
I’ve got to agree with you. Although I am an occasional smoker I am very thankful they’ve semi recently placed a ban on smoking in any enclosed building within my home state of Florida in the USA.
I will mention that we are still allowed to smoke at bars (places that make most of their income from alcohol sales and do not serve food) and I enjoy that concession on occasion.
Just my thoughts! Your site is gorgeous!
5
Here in Portugal, rumour has it (yes, because in a country where football scandals open all the 3 free-to-air channels’ news, this kind of information is bound to circulate in a rumour basis) that 2007-01-01 is the day zero of a “no smoking in restaurants, cafés and whatnot, unless the owner has the square meters and the euros to build independtly ventilated smoking/non-smoking areas” policy.
Of course, there’s also the big “but”—-the cultural/social heritage of “hanging out in a café drinking a coffee and smoking a cigarette”. Smokers can get really offended at this “threat to their freedom”, and the owners of such places are afraid to lose clients*. The sentence “one’s freedom begins where the other’s freedom ends” is frequently used to call “pro vs. con” discussions a draw, but it isn’t usually used in the right way.
On a first analysys, on a cafeteria or restaurant, I have the same freedom of having a coffee without smoke being thrown into my lungs as the other person has to smoke a cigarette without me pouring my coffee down his/her throat. But if one freedom has to take over the other, it is, to say the least, fair that coffee drinkers pervail over smokers—- for the mere fact that the cafeteria is *the* place to have coffee.
There’s also the news that Starbucks (known for their non-smoking policy, with one excepcion in the whole world) is coming to Portugal. Let’s see if they don’t balk at the fear of losing clients, and withdraw that policy for the Portuguese establishments. In little little-minded Portugal, it’s the last hope I have to stop having to switch shirt after having coffee.
<small>* - For this factor, I find the strict no-smoking policy (no possibility for the owner to choose, or to be able to have smoking areas) more effective. If one can’t smoke in any cafeteria, owners can’t be afraid of losing clients to other cafeterias for that sole reason.</small>
6
I have to agree with Tim, I’m a non smoker also, but it really gets to me all this banning smoking everywhere. Why not just go to specific smoke free restaurants or whatever, why does there have to be a blanket ban on smoking? I recently heard there is no smoking on many of California’s beaches. How crazy is that? There are miles of coastline there, and you still can’t smoke on a remote bit of beach. There is even a whole town where you can’t smoke, yet huge cars still pump out smoke all day long.
Anyway, I think this is all getting a bit much, why does society have to always persecute a section of itself? Why not make arangements so that some places are designated smoking cafes, restaurants, whatever, and let the proprietors decide, then its up to the people whether they choose to go there or not. Why does everyone have to get so offended by the habits of others? Live and let live, I think it makes sense.
7
Speaking of generalizing.
8
I wouldn’t care if they required each bar/restaurant/... to have a no-smoke array (a REAL one, not as it is today in many Belgian restaurants), but why aren’t restaurant owners allowed to have a completely separate room where smoking is allowed?
If people choose to sit in the smoke, and the restaurant owner wants to go through all the trouble of making such a room, why don’t let them? (I wouldn’t sit there for the record, but why prohibit it…) I don’t like this overregulating.
9
I think personally that smoking should definitely be banned completely in all public areas. At the moment here in the UK they are going through placing a ban in food areas but I don’t think it has completely gone through yet. I think that if people want to do that then it is entirely their decision although enforcing that on other people without them wanting it, in my eyes is wrong.
Hope it all goes well for Belgium in the end.
Best wishes,
Mark
10
That’s great news Veerle! Smoking was banned in bars, restaurants, and cafés in Sweden in June last year, and it’s great. It’s absolutely fantastic to finally be able to go out without getting your eyes, lungs, and clothes ruined by smoke.
People who absolutley must smoke can go outside to suck on their cancer sticks and then come back inside.
11
@Maarten: Generalizing maybe… but it is the sad truth that most of the smokers just don’t give a damn. If they had the respect in the first place to not smoke while others eat nobody would need any law.
@SomeBelgian: It will be so that restaurants can have a “closed” smoke area (isolated from the rest) but just for smoking after eating not for serving food in there. It is up to them if they build it or not.
12
In Oregon you can only smoke in bars. Across the river in Washington, you can’t smoke in bars AND you can’t smoke within 25 feet of an establishment that prohibits smoking. (thats about 8 meters in Euro Speak).
:)
13
Hi,
very good point. They have the same kind of idea here in France… it’s on its way and hopefully, it’ll come very fast.
I’m looking forward to hear such a good news here in France. We already have smoking area and non smoking areas but imagine how it is in a 60 squarred meters restaurant :D
Non smoking people: our time has come!
14
As someone who loves smoking cigars, I try to understand those that don’t appreciate the smell and the harmful second-hand smoke and choose to smoke at my home, the golf course, and the cigar lounge at my local cigar shop. However, some US bans on public smoking are even targeting cigar shops. This just seems like a lack of common sense.
Someone going to a restaurant or even a bar shouldn’t have to assume they’d have to put up with second-hand smoke, but a cigar shop? I would assume that the name “cigar shop” would mean people will be smoking in there.
15
Here in Montréal they just banned smoking inside all public buildings, (it happened at the end of May), and I believe there’s a law about how far you must be from the enterance of a building to smoke. This means no smoking in bars, restaurants, cafes, and the like. People were furious here, (Québec has the highest smoking population in North America I believe), but I think it’s great.
But there’s a but. Smoking is still permitted on terraces, (what they call patios here), so to walk into a restaurant, bar, or cafe, you have to walk through the smoke and there is absolutely no chance of enjoying a smoke-free meal outside on the terrace as it is packed with smokers.
16
Veerle, one thing must also be said. In my now 13 years of travelling and living around Europe, I have always been proud to say that Belgium was one of the first countries world wide with an actually compulsary non-smoking area in restaurants, and even that Belgium was one of the first countries in Europe where tobacco advertizement was prohibited.
Can you imagine my surprize some years ago when I arrived in Germany, normally a country with a health(y) reputation and I saw streets with cigarette vending machines at the walls? Boards promoting new brands. Even the Marlboro Cowboy suddenly came back in my life.
As a smoker myself, I would rather prefer to have a separated smoking-allowed area in restaurants. Like the actual law was (1/3 smoking free area compulsary, but the law has never been enforced), just the smoking area being the smallest area.
17
Just this weekend I watched as a young mother walked her child outside of the Sea-Tac Airport baggage claim area to find a smoking area (smoking in Seattle is prohibited except 25 feet away from public doors/entrances). When she wasn’t able to (quickly) locate one, she lit up right were she stood—which happened to be RIGHT in front of a “Smoking Prohibited” sign, about 5 feet from a doorway. I approached her and pointed out the sign and showed her where the smoking section was. She rolled her eyes, sneered, and hurried her child away, as if I was some sort of predator.
I think nicotine does something to the logic-enabler in the head.
18
I smoked for almost 9 years and didn’t really care about how smoking affected people in public. When NYC put the ban on smoking in bars, I took that as an omen ... I had to quit, and did. ‘Twasn’t even hard, too.
19
Here is some stats:
-About 3,000 non-smokers die annually from lung cancer caused by secondhand smoke.
- 35,000 non-smokers die annually from heart disease caused by secondhand smoke.
The government should really think of it.
20
Veerle -
With a smoking ban comes a phenomenon that you might not like:
Smokers standing right outside the doorway or restaurants, bars, etc. where smoking is not allowed so that all patrons have to walk through a big cloud of smoke to get in the place.
I’m pretty libertarian/free market with my point of view. Despite my dislike of cigarette smoke, I’d rather the establishment ban smoking and not have to have it be a government thing. It works.
I don’t like the idea of taking the freedom to choose away from the establishment owner, the smoker, etc.
21
Sam, statistics can prove anything 78% of all people know that…
22
I understand the frustration. We’ve had smoke-free everywhere here in British Columbia for several years now - you don’t realize how bad it was before until you go somewhere where it’s still allowed.
23
I absolutelly agree. If it can be possible I would take cigarettes into drugs and other not allowed trash.
I got only 2 non-smokers restaurants in town… what else to say? To all smokers: please stop. It can be without this. You wold do better if you buy a chocolate to your children every day than a box of cigarettes.
And one more thing: I will never kiss a girl who smoke cigarettes. NEVER - it’s disgusting.
24
I’m totally with you on the smoking ban Veerle - just been to Scotland where they’ve had a complete smoking ban in all clubs, bars & restaurants.
It’s bliss. It really is! You come back smelling ok, your eyes don’t water at inconvenient times and you get to feel happy for not getting cancer as soon as otherwise.
Can’t wait for the Netherlands to catch up with Ireland, Scotland & Belgium!
25
I’m with Dave Simon on this one, let the owners of the restaurants decide.
If they keep this up they’ll have to ban wines as well. All that drunk driving and all, but I’m sure it’s not the same thing…
26
Here in Massachusetts, they’ve had smoking banned in any indoor establishment for a couple years now. The reason for the ban was not to help out the customers, but rather to protect the employees that worked there. The law was based around the idea that workers shouldn’t be forced to work in an unhealthy environment. There might have been a little bit of grumbling here when it first took affect, but it just seems normal now.
27
I love the blog and the great tips you share Veerle, but this is where I lose respect for you. Tedious whine, bah!
28
Yeah right, if we leave it up to owners we have no choice where to go or we have to drive some km’s to find one. A search for non-smoking restaurants on resto.be for East Flanders turned out 4 results on let’s say a few 100 in that province. This gives you a pretty good idea why a law is needed.
29
Vincent Mariani said:
If I needed to earn your respect by letting you blow smoke while I’m eating then I’m not sorry I lost it now ;)
30
That may be so, but I still have to meet that one person who listens when being asked to do so, so I don’t feel I’m wrong in my previous comment.
My friends even start smoking when I’m having dinner and are actually too ignorant to realise that it makes me lose my appetite. Damn that pisses me off.
I for one wouldn’t like to have to look for my own private restaurant because other people try to infest me with cancer. :s Smokers are the ones causing the smell and smoke (and occasional burns at party’s. >_>) while I don’t do anything to hurt them. Yet I should be the one looking for alternative locations to eat (or do whatever I want to do)? So illogical, I’ve heard this statement so many times, I still can’t believe it.
31
I have to say, Veerle’s point is well-taken by some of us. I agree with Sam up there who pointed out how many people actually are dying from second-hand smoke, and also Zach’s statement about the law that was passed in Massachusetts to protect employees. At least someone has some sense. It is a huge problem, and smoking is not a healthy habit for anyone. I think if people are going to smoke, it should be outside where the smoke can leave the building. I may be unpopular for saying it too, but I think we could all stand for some more healthy living habits - not just non-smoking, but non-polluting in general, and eating healthy foods, as well. There is a lot of cancer and you’d be surprised how much exposure to things like that on a daily basis can lead to it.
I would be quite happy if people didn’t smoke either, especially when you’re on your way to work and get blasted by someone on the sidewalk who is strolling along, oblivious to the people around them, not to mention they’re smoking any time of the day, not just at night or hen they go to a restaurant. It is really aggravating and if you have allergies, it is very difficult to breathe it.
32
Agree with you a 100 percent Veerle! There is nothing more I dislike in this world than a smoke of a cigarette. I don’t go to clubs JUST because of that, I avoid Birthday parties where I know smokers will be present….ughhhhh… I just can’t explain how much it bothers me. And if I accidentally happen to be in a smoky environment and it’s unavoidable then that day is destroyed for me and I can’t wait until I go home, take a shower and go to sleep with itchy eyes.
33
The smoking ban in Scotland was fantastic. I know people who still smoke, but they just walk out of the bar/pub to the smokers area outside.
Ireland brought it in, and it was great. Scotland has brought it in, and it’s great. New York brought it in, and it’s reat.
34
*sigh*
all i have to say is it’s better than nothing. as for picking non-smokey places, it’s difficult. there are a lot of place i like to go to but can’t (not can’t but b/c it’s smokey, i don’t want to) b/c i just feel and smell sick afterwards.
i don’t know. we just passed it here in Omaha, Nebraska, USA for places that serve food. places that don’t sell food, you can smoke in. but, 45 minutes away in Lincoln, Nebraska, USA it’s completely banned and we visited there one night and went to a few place and loved that i left the bar not smelling heavy with smoke.
hands down facts, it’s a bad habit, it smells, it’ll kill you and others around you. there’s no debate there. this is a good thing. do it on your own time in your own little smoking room and respect others around you. we do, after all, have to share this earth and some just want to live longer…and smell good!
:)
35
I totally agree! I used to live in GA where smoking is banned indoors. That’s ALL of the indoors. Here, where I live now, it isn’t that way and I am still not used to being asked when I go out to eat, “smoking or non-smoking?”
Sometimes it doesn’t matter if you are in the “non-smoking” area…the smoke wafts through the air and ruins my dinner :-(
36
I totally agree with you Veerle! Greetings from Brazil ;-)
37
The smoking ban in Washington, DC begins on that very same day. I am quite ecstatic about returning home with my clothes NOT smelling horrendous for once. I’m glad to see that other people seem to feel the same way. Most of my friends breathe cigarette smoke more than regular air. Needless to say, they are peeved by the ban.
38
Totally agree! . I’m glad I have a balcony where I can air out my clothes. I think Slovenia is getting in on this, but don’t know when. I also read that in our country this will not mean that you won’t be allowed to smoke in close quarters, just that the ventialtion system will have to be set up so that it will not bother anybody else. I hope that’s not the case in Belgium.
39
You are so lucky, you don’t know how worth can be. In Romanina (my country) is very hard to find a restaurant or a bar with a little space for non smokers. After you go with your friends to drink a cockteil or eat a cookie you must throw your clothes becouse of the smell.
I really wonder if something will change in this way after we will be in the European Union (i don’t know if we will be in the UE, yet…). Anyway it’s terrible, you know that we still have comercials on the streets with cigarets, and we can see comercials at the cinema. The cigaretes companies just make lots and lots of money just because the law is wrong. The cigaretes are very cheap and so on ...
40
It’s a very sensitive discussion, but I tend towards the smoking ban.
But what annoys me sometime is the arguments smokers give to ridicule a smoking ban:
* Cars and trucks pollute too! Forbid them too!
-> We NEED those, or our economy collapses.
* Why not forbid alcohol too! It’s addictive and unhealthy.
-> When I drink a beer next to you, you don’t have to taste it. You don’t get drunk. Your liver doesn’t start sweating… You’ll be fine. Of course: alcohol abuse is a diffirent story.
* Bars will go bankrupt
-> Policies in Ireland, Italy, Scotland prove otherwise.
I love smoking a cigar. Such deep taste, such aura, I love it. But I smoke it in a cigar club, once a week. Cigarettes are an insult to tobacco and it’s legacy. Smoke them if you will, but on your own.
Meanwhile, I’ll still go to bars enjoying a drink and the company of friends. But I’ll enjoy it even more without the scent of cancer candy ‘round me.
Dixi.
41
I don’t know how to really describe my stance on non-smoking. I think it’s fine to ban smoking in all public buildings, but I think banning smoking outside or in your own private homes or extensions of your home (like your vehicle) goes too far.
I don’t smoke and don’t care to, but I don’t think a person’s rights should be infringed upon because they smoke. A ban indoors is fine as it becomes a health hazard quickly. If someone wants to kill themselves smoking they can gladly do so outside.
There’s no anti-smoking law here, but there was one just signed. I believe the law just signed goes a bit too far as it could endanger restaurants that include bars (even if the restaurant bans smoking in the bar).
42
I absolutely agree with you, Veerle.
Here in Spain smoking is banned only in non-small bars (greater than 100 m²) but in most small bars people is still smoking and that’s really anoying when you try to enjoy a meal.
I’m told in Ireland smoking is banned in all pubs, that’s really great!
43
I’m pretty libertarian in my views as well, but I don’t think a smoking ban is too much government control. Think about it. If I walked into a bar with any sort of poisonous fumes emanating from me OTHER than cigarette smoke, the police would probably haul me off for endangering people’s lives! It’s a serious thing! We’re still recovering from the ignorance of the previous generations that didn’t realize that smoking was a bad thing.
Smoking really does Kill
44
Geert, the government has no right what so ever to dictate how a company should be run.
Customers however do, and if this is the big issue all the witch hunters make of it, the customers will force the owners to set up smoke free restaurants.
The fact that it hasn’t happened yet, I’ll leave that conclussion up to you…
45
THANK YOU SEATTLE!
I feel for you though, I moved to Seattle from an area that still allowed smoking in bars. So I just never went to bars.
P.S. First post ever.
46
Oh, and they banned smoking on the beaches in California because smokers consider the beach their ash tray. You look left, then look right, and your kid is chewing on a cigarette butt. Tasty, eh?
47
I agree that second-hand smoke is gross and I think the ban is a step in the right direction. Here’s the thing though: when you tell a smoker not to smoke in a bar you are not just telling him or her to omit something (like “stop picking your nose”), you are telling her or him to leave the building. Obviously, people hate to be told where they can and can’t go. I grew to sympathise with the smoking ban in Connecticut although it took a while, even after I stopped smoking a few years ago. I know that many non-smokers have smokers’ best health interests at heart as well as their own, but the simple fact of the matter is that when you say “don’t smoke here” it’s less like saying “don’t have one more cookie” and more like saying “go outside and stop liking the colour orange”. It’s a kind of social combat and smokers know it. That’s why they often tell outspoken anti-smokers to go shove it. If the advance of legislative bans is anything to go by then the anti-smokers will ultimately win this one, but they shouldn’t expect the smokers to go down without a fight because they hate being discriminated against, even if it is for objectively valid reasons.
48
What I would really like in restaurant is that people stop eating while I’m smoking.
49
Whatever. Just know that as a non-smoker, you are a superior being.
50
I’m suprised to see such a black/white view from you Veerle.
Like it or not, there are a lot of smokers out there. They are treated like murdereds almost these days.
I think a solution like in Belgium is best: not allowed in restaurants, but allowed in cafés.
Anyways, in cafés, I get more annoyed by drunk people then cigarette smoke. So why don’t ban alcohol too? :)
51
The crusade against smoking must go on. Smoking was banned in all public places in Norway back in 2004. Basically because of the health and welfare of people at work. People working in bars and resturants deserve a non-lethal working environment just as much as any other employee, don’t you think?
Even North Korea has banned smoking. You are not allowed to study at a University in NK if you smoke :)
52
@Veerle : quote “If I needed to earn your respect by letting you blow smoke while I’m eating then I’m not sorry I lost it now ;)”
I am a smoker, and I smoke in areas in restaurants where smoking is allowed. I am very carefull not to blow smoke in the direction of other people. If the restaurant is so crowded that non-smokers have to sit in smoking areas, I don’t smoke while they are eating. I understand why smoking is banned, but would much prefer it to be the decision of the restaurant/bar owner than a govenment decision.
I also think you article and comments don’t show any respect for smokers. Does the fact that a person smokes cigarettes make him a bad person?
Do you think you are better than me/us because you don’t use cigarettes to pollute the air, but only do it by for example driving a car.
I’m sorry, I always do my best to respect non-smokers, but it makes me sad that a lot of them don’t show any respect for smokers. I like to think people should be respected for what they are and not only if they are like me.
53
@Dries:
So blowing the smoke in a different direction makes it okay to smoke where people work and eat? What about some respect for the non smoking waitress that has to work there because she has no other source of income and no other jobs available?
If the restaurant had 6 meters up to the ceiling and really really good airconditioning, then maybe I, as a guest at a table 20 meters away or with a wall between us, could make it work, otherwise I’d have to disagree with you there. Blowing smoke in a different direction isn’t a solution to anything fresh air-wise.
I would not want to work in a place where people are allowed to smoke, but if I had no other choice, would you still feel okay with polluting my lungs, making me more prone to cancer and respiratory diseases?
54
Hysteria…
55
Hysteria or no hysteria… Claiming that you have a right to pollute the air I breathe either in my spare time or while I’m at work by saying “if you don’t like smoking - don’t go to/work at restaurants” just pisses me off. Of course it should be banned. It is bloody obvious: It’s a health hazard even for people who don’t smoke.
... and very inconvenient for people who smoke too, because quitting is difficult for many of us.
In Norway people have to go outside to smoke, and at hospitals, schools and similar institutions have large areas around them where smoking is disallowed too, so people have to go further than right outside the front door.
56
That’s just what’s the whole discussion is about. It doesn’t change a thing if you blow your smoke this direction or that direction. In the end the smoke stays in the room, no matter where you blow it.
It’s like a kid who wants to keep fishes and reptiles in the same bowl expecting the water for the fishes to stay on one side so the reptiles won’t drown. You know you need a Mozes to do that kind of stuff!
I used to smoke and I understand very well the fact why smokers defend their so said freedom. It’s not their freedom they try to defend but the fact they will feel terrible when they try to quit smoking.
57
Totally agree .... and for your information, in my engineering school (UTC in Compiègne, north of france) there is a bar called “picolo”. A survey was done to know the students percentage that was pro and cons the smoking tolerance in this place. I think (I am not exactly sure of the percentage) that more than 80% of the students were pro to BAN smoking in the picolo. Since this day it is no more allowed to smoke there and the bar is full of happy students now. The frequentation has increased too. Smoking is a lack of respect for everyone and oneself. I hope the logic will win against the lobbying of killers like all of them
58
A smoking section in a restaurant is like a peeing section in a swimming pool.
Smokers aren’t the personification of Satan. They’re people like you and me, but with a nicotine addiction.
I like the fact that over a 100 years, people will say to eachother: a 100 years ago it was still allowed to smoke, even where children were present, can you imagine that?
59
G’day,
This is always going to be a controversial issue whether you smoke or not…
But here in Brisbane, Australia it is now illegal to smoke in places that serve food or drink, even if the venue is outside I believe… Of course there are sectioned off smoking areas and such, which is good…
I think it should be your choice whether you smoke or not but it should also be your choice to be able to enjoy a meal or a night out without having to put up with everyone elses bad habit!
60
@Veerle Mon Aug 28, 2006 at 06.57 pm “@Maarten: Generalizing maybe… but it is the sad truth that most of the smokers just don’t give a damn. If they had the respect in the first place to not smoke while others eat nobody would need any law.”
I think this discussion has made so far already, and every duscussion has the same conclusion, the ‘smoke-haters’ are paranoid of smoke-air so they find smokers ‘respectless’ & most of all they say “When i ask them to stop they just give me a blink/laugh”. It’s very childish to say that in my opninion. (non-smoker)
61
I’ll come fart at your table and while awaiting your reaction on the smell, we can discuss your paranoid attitude towards completely normal bodily gasses. :P
62
@Dries:
The simple fact the one person doesn’t smoke does not affect other people’s health and confort, I guess you can consider that a non-smoker is a better person than a smoker (at least some of them).
Although, I don’t think non-smokers consider themselves superior to smokers. The fact that a person smokes, doesn’t make him a bad person, but it sure hurts other in some way.
I hope the smoking habbits become prohibited in all closed spaces as soon as possible.
63
I’m asthmatic and I do think that some smokers give a damn! Try telling me “No more chocolate!” on a bad day at work, I think the same applies to a smoker!
64
Tim Ceuppens said
Yes they do if public health is an issue. Those 3000 people who die each year from second hand smoke aren’t a made up story they are very real. Half of those people who die work in the “horeca” (hotel, restaurants, café) sector. How anyone with half a brain doesn’t get that and even worse calls it a witch hunt is beyond comprehension.
65
From now on…
SMOKING IS TOTALLY OUT!
It doesn’t match your clothes, your furniture, your hydrated skin… These days, smoking is something for old dirty bastards with a Winchester.
If a cigarette would have such thing as a Louis Vuitton patterned filter… BUT IT HASN’T.
Think again folks!
Smoking is so out, and so not done! The hype is over, go back home…
66
Here in the UK we are also counting down the days to the ban. But for some strange reason my government has decided to wait until July 2007 for it come into affect. I suppose one good thing is that unlike Belgium it will be banned in all public places. Happy Days.
67
Here in Alberta, Canada you’re still allowed to smoke until Jan 1st as well… unless its in a bar/restaurant that has already spent money to make a special smoking room. Like you, and thousands others in my province, I want a total ban. Frankly, I want to live.
The other funny thing is that here, it’s illegal to smoke on the patio of a restaurant. You can smoke indoors, but not on the patio… so what do people do? They jump the rail, stand on the other side (still talking to folks at the table) and smoke freely. Stupid, just stupid.
68
Geert, let’s not get personal shall we?
Anyway, the point I’m trying to make is that if it’s about preventing deaths, we should ban alcohol as well.
This is why it’s such a witch hunt.
69
@Tim Ceuppens:
Are you serious? Nobody is banning smoking, smoking is just being banned from places where it is hurting non-smokers, for instance people who work in restaurants on a daily basis. Non-smoking waiters/waitresses probably suffer more from smoking related health issues than smokers do themselves.
People die from drinking alcohol of course, but alcohol does not pollute the air around you and serve as a potential danger to others when you drink it yourself, so the comparison is just ridiculous.
70
Yes, there’s no danger to others when you drink and drive…
Here’s another reason why it’s such a witch hunt. We’re making all this effort in banning it everywhere, but there’s little to no effort what so ever to helping people quit.
Though, because of the black and white view here, I’m sure that you’ll say that they don’t want to quit.
71
Torkil wrote…
“I’ll come fart at your table and while awaiting your reaction on the smell, we can discuss your paranoid attitude towards completely normal bodily gasses. :P”
LOLOL That’s great!
72
I think it should be fair for everyone. There should be proper and distinguished smoking and non-smoking areas in all facilities - restaurants, bars and night clubs alike.
73
Society is against drinking and driving. And they’re against smoking in public places as well.
Also, I don’t think any of the non-smokers here are trying to belittle smokers or claim that they’re better than them, or anything like that. The smokers should not see this as an attack on their character, but they should see it as an attack on their very bad habit that kills thousands of people every year.
Personally, I’m fine with smoking/non-smoking sections in a restaurant. I’d *prefer* that it would be totally banned, but I’ve never smelled smoke in the non-smoking section.
74
@Tim..
You’re being silly. I mean come on. Why do you think there is a warning on every can of hairspray/paint/etc telling you NOT to use it in confined spaces because IT’S HAZARDOUS TO YOUR HEALTH if you inhale the fumes? But it’s okay to inhale cigarette smoke…when it’s not even by choice? Please.
My dad smoked for years and I have nothing inherently against smoking or smokers for that matter. Just do it where *I* don’t have to breath it. As a non-smoker, I am forced to make decisions (go there or not go there depending on how smokey it is) based on a smoker’s “right” to pollute the air. So where are MY rights? Don’t *I* have the right to go where I please and still enjoy clean air? Why should it be an either/or decision?
75
Where do I state it isn’t harmless?
I’m saying that the battle against smoking is being fought wrong. Banning it everywhere serves no point what so ever, unless you take steps to prevent people from picking up smoking and help them to stop doing it.
Something that simply isn’t done now.
So I’m sorry that all you “half a brains” are “being silly”, but this is the end of the line for me here. When I get attacked, instead of the points, it just underlines that the witch hunt synonim is just right…
76
Just want to make 1 thing very clear : I’m not against smoking itself, if you want to smoke, just smoke, be a factory pipe all you want, BUT do it somewhere where you don’t bother me with it. THAT’s the whole point and nothing else. I’m with Peter V. on this. Make it isolated and totally sealed off and they can do whatever they want.
Special thanks to Torkill :)
77
There’s plenty of help out there to quit smoking. Wrigley’s spearmint, nicoderm CQ, all sorts of other patches. But in the end, there’s only so much society can do. Most of the smokers that I know are not trying to quit. I’ve never met a smoker who was honestly trying to quit, who didn’t end up quitting. The problem is a lack of self-control. It’s not that I’m unsympathetic, I understand it’s difficult, but there’s not much I can do about beyond simply encouraging them to succeed.
78
I agree, Belgium is stupid
79
Because it’s something nobody can do for you… You quit alone, you die alone…
The fact that all over the world smoking becomes less and less accepted, makes not all people stop smoking but discourages youngsters to start.
80
This isn’t a witch hunt for smokers, it is a crusade for better public health. Confusing the two, like the Belgian government obviously has done when they decided to allow smoking in pubs of “cultural” reasons, might not get people killed, it WILL get people killed. People die of this shit every day.
When smoking was banned TOTALLY in Norway back in 2004, there was alot of fuzz from smokers who felt they were at the wrong side of a witch hunt. Since then, the government has had alot of educating TV-commercials among other things, and I personally haven’t heard any of my friends who smoke complain about having to go outdoors to smoke in a very long time. The number of smokers have steadily declined as well, so things are definitely getting better.
So it seems like the public is getting more educated on the dangers of smoking. One would think that the insanely large capital letters on smoke packs saying “this stuff WILL kill you” would discourage people from even opening the pack, but then again as the tobacco company slogan goes: There is a *sucker* born every second! ;)
81
Bravo Veerle. Bravo! I live in southern American where smoking originated in this company. I can drive a few miles and show you a tobacco farm doing a booming business. Smoking in public establishments isn’t banned here, but most restaurants don’t allow it and it is a growing trend.
I have severe chronic migraines and have had them for the past 13 years of my life. The number one trigger of my migraines is an allergic reaction to cigarette smoke. When people argue for the right to smoke in public and say “Oh, it doesn’t affect anyone but me.” I am quick to point out that they cannot control their smoke. More likely than not, it is affecting EVERYONE around them. In severe cases like mine, I can be sent to the hospital by inhaling second hand smoke.
Smokers want to talk about unfair treatment, talk to me when your stupid addiction sends me to the hospital. Then we’ll talk unfair.
82
@Tim Ceuppens said:
They have been doing all kind of campaigns for years, even harsh ones that don’t let anything over to your imagination and it still doesn’t help. Another measure is the price point to make it less attractive. Also the ban on cigarette advertising that is in place, the BIG warning on the package… should I go on? Maybe you never said it wasn’t dangerous but you definitely said it is ok to inflict it on others who don’t want it in the first place.
No point, are you serious? It only helps reducing less people die, remember the 3000 yearly. Why should we bother says Tim nice :) Banning has no point.
83
@Torkil
Well, maybe I should really consider not smoking in restaurants. I can see the problem there. Restaurants are required by law to have good ventilation in the smoker-area, but they just don’t have it.
But I still think respect should be mutual. I respect non-smokers, when nobody is smoking I usually ask if it’s okay to smoke. And if someone asks me to put it out, I do. But that doesn’t happen often, what usually happens is people start complaining loudly to other people about how bad a person I am for smoking in their vicinity.
But this discussion can go on forever if neither party is willing to give in.
So let me add this : if someone (me for example) is smoking and you don’t like it, ask him/her to stop. If he/she doesn’t, complain, bitch, shout, scream, do whatever you like.
If you think he/she shouldn’t be smoking in the first place : just smile and be happy that you are perfect and people who aren’t like you are losers.
84
Everyone can be rude, smoker or nonsmoker. It’s rude to smoke when someone is obviously having a problem with it, when there’s children around or when it’s very crowded. But it’s also rude to mock and condemn people for pursuing a habit they enjoy. It’s not like over-eating is that good for a person either, but America is overrun of people practice that habit with gusto. Why is it okay to mock and ridicule smokers, but then people get in an uproar if one was to say anything about a fat person?
Smokers should be polite and practice their habit discreetly. But at the end of the day, it’s a choice we make, just like people choose whether to drink, over-eat, do drugs, etc.
Smoking is often a social activity that goes nicely with drinking and hanging out, so it’s sad I’m not going ot have anywhere to go and participate in my favorite, albeit bad, habits. It bothers me that the government is making these choices for us. Why not give incentives to businesses to remain smoke-free, rather than dictating what people can and cannot do?
As long as the government is dictating which habits we can indulge in, I just want to know one thing: When are they going to put a ban on all-you-can-eat buffets?
85
@Dries:
So you ask before you light up a cigarette? Thats thoughtful! Like: “Mind if I shorten your life a bit?” or “Mind if I make your clothes smell like sh*t?”.
Do you really think non-smokers enjoy the smoke?
I have had people ask me that too. Do I say “Yes I DO mind!”? No, I don’t. I’m too polite to say no, or maybe too afraid to disappoint or upset the other person if I do. “OF course you can smoke” is the polite and correct answer.
It’s like when someone asks you to do them a favor. Of course you’d like to do it. You like to help people. It’s the polite thing to do.
Remind me to ask you if I can fart on you should we ever bump into one another. I hope you’ll be polite too, and say “Yes, of course you can fart!”.
... I really have to stop comparing smoking to farting. Sure they both smell bad, but one cigarette lasts so much longer than one fart. Picture a 3-4 minute long fart leaving my anus in your precence, filling up the entire room with a really bad smell.
Another area where farts and cigarette smoke can’t compare, is the gasses. Farts consists mainly of nitrogen, which will do you no harm at all. Cigarette smoke, or passive/second-hand smoking can on the other hand be considered quite dangerous:
Possible short term effects include, but are not limited to:
• Allergic reactions (coughing, sneezing, runny noses, watery eyes, etc)
• Astmatics may experience astma attacks
• Headaches
• Nauseousness
• Sleepyness
• ... and more
Long term effects include among other things:
• Increased risk of lung cancer
• Increased risk of heart disease
• Increased risk of miscarriage and birth defects
• Increased risk of developing asthma, both for children and adults
• Learning difficulty in children
• Increased risk of lung infections
• Increased risk of ear infections
• Increased risk of allergies
• Worsening of asthma, allergies, and other conditions
So don’t ask people if it’s okay if you smoke. Instead, ask them if it’s okay make them feel sick, worsen their astma, damage their unborn child or make them more prone to lung cancer. For instance.
86
Jen said:
You can’t compare smoking to over-eating or doing drugs. Smoking is accompanied by passive smoking for those around you - there is no such thing as passively becoming overweight because the guy at the other table is over-eating. And dhy do so many smokers you call it a social activity, when it health-wise is just about the most non-social thing you can do to the people around you?
.... I’m not mocking anyone. I just want to be able to make my own decisions regarding my health, as I am sure non-smoking waiters, waitresses and bartenders in Belgian bars want too, even after Jan 1st 2007.
87
We have a strict smoking policy in Brazil. It’s not allowed to smoke in restaurants and malls for example.
Hey, Veerle, I’m recommending you in my blog on the Blog Day, ok? It will be on the 31st of August, and the idea is to recommend 5 good blogs you know that are different from your own culture. Hope you can join us! (www.blogday.org)
Bye!
88
What’s with all the idiotic nonsense about non-smokers looking for special smoke-free restaurants? Are you kidding me? I don’t believe the sole purpose of a restaurant is for smoking! It’s for enjoying a nice dinner with friends and family outside of your home. Go to a bar, a pool hall, a bowling alley, a club, or wherever else that it’s acceptable, but not in a restaurant where common courtesy should be most important since people can’t just walk away from you (the smoker). Veerle is spot on with her post.
And if a smoker sneers or rolls their eyes when told to not smoke in a smoke-free area, it’s due to them compensating for their low self-esteem because they know they have an addiction they can’t control.
89
“Oh, don’t smoke in front of me while I eat the dead, decaying carcuss on my plate.”
- How bout living a holistic life by becoming vegan?
90
Ok, this topic is now officially out of hand.
besides, it’s not technically a decaying carcass since it’s been prepared. Roadkill is a carcass
91
My first post here, nice site Veerle.
Sean said earlier:
I’m certain that it does. Smoking is a socially condoned addiction. By telling the smoker to move to the designated smoking area you’re impeding their ability to “get their fix”. They’re going to be irritated with you because they “need” that cigarette. Smokers will light up at a resturaunt while you’re eating because smoking is a selfish act of chemical dependance.
I may sound a little harsh but Veerle makes a good point in her post about respect. With all the evidence connecting smoking with cancer, it’s a testament to the addictive power of cigarettes when a smoker lights up in a public space and expects you simply accept it.
92
I totally agree with the ban, like alot of people who have posted here I don’t go to bars and clubs for that one reason, because I hate the smell of smoke it just makes me feel ill.
This is my first post but i’m a long time “lurker” *grins*
great site
93
“The market decides”...
Or: if there were a *real* demand for none smoking pubs, they would be there. Or else none-smoking evenings, or smoke-free-parties. None of them exist, and taken into consideration that at least half of the pub/club/bar owners are commercial businessmen, I can only conclude: There is no demand for this.
94
@Bèr:
So if there is no demand, then why is it being legislated all over Europe, as comments here will tell you?
In Norway there were such things as none-smoking evenings and places divided into smoking and none-smoking lounges, and other similar things LONG before the ban went into place. I think they were there for a reason, don’t you?
The other primary reason the ban is being imposed, is the overall health effect it will have on the general public, so I’d say it’s primarily health oriented.
If your government wanted to ban really unhealthy food, and you thought it was unfair and you wanted to be able to eat whatever food you’d like, I’d gladly sign your petition. Of curse you have the right to do what you want to. But when we’re talking about smoking, an activity that affects the health of the people around you, I can’t see why you would object.
95
The public house was considered central to Irish culture, but that didn’t stop them bringing it in here. If it can work in Ireland it can work anywhere.
One side effect you should all be aware of. Without the smell of smoke other odours are more easily detected.
That includes body odour and breaking wind…you’ve been warned.
96
This is another one of those touchy subjects that irks people. Hey remember most governments are banning smoking because it saves them a ton of money on health care costs. Funny how the movement has been bigger in the US which doesn’t have national health care.
I’m in NY it has been banned here for a few years now. The first time I noticed was going to a club with my now wife. It seemed so clean, and when we got home are clothes and hair smelt the same way as when we left.
My wife is from Argentina and they just started down there. A country where people smoke everywhere even at work and in some hospitals! They were up in arms about not smoking at work. My wife called in on a radio talk show and told them how in the US people go on smoking breaks. They were confounded that this workaholic society let people leave their desk to smoke. Too funny.
I don’t know what the big deal is for smokers, some act as though it is some inalienable right for them to smoke when and where they please. Strange.
97
Hi Veerle!
The idea is healthy, I just don´t like to have “someone else” deciding what I can do or not.
Congratulations, great blog !
98
Generalisation is great, hum? But if you guys feel better now…
99
@Tina: How do you think non-smokers feel when smokers around them decide that they should get cancer too?
100
The comments of all smokers on this topic should be considered invalid because they’re to much involved.
The fact a smoker is addicted to the subject, makes him unsuitable to argue with.
Yes, they can be heard but they cannot be ivolved in the making of a decision.
Only a smoker who quits smoking and is totally clean can join the discussion. Even if he restarts his bad habit the minute after the discussion is closed.
101
I completely agree with you Veerle! I was born and raised In California and had the pleasure of spending the last 4 or 5 years with smoking banned in all indoor public places (though my home town doesn’t exactly adhere to that rule in a few of it’s bars. Grrr). Then I decided to become a grad student in England and my joy has gone entirely out the window (unfortunately the smoke hasn’t). I used to love to go dancing, but now it’s more miserable than fun because I can’t breathe and smell like smoke when I come home.
I’m looking even more toward visiting Belgium next year now!!!
Beautiful website. Congrats!
102
I fully agree with you. I hate coming home and smell like an ashtray every night. It’s disgusting!
I’ve never smoked in my life and can’t understand why almost everybody smokes (even when they do so “only at the weekend”).
I would greatly appreciate smoke-free pubs and restaurants.
103
I think it’s really a matter of selfishness on both sides of the argument. It’s all about what “I” want or need right now. Common arguments:
“If I want to smoke, I should have the right to smoke wherever I want.”
“Your right to smoke infringes on my right to breath clean air.” [which by the way, non-smokers should always focus on the health issue. Smokers don’t care that you don’t like the smell of smoke, they’re used to it.]
“If you don’t like the smoke, just go to a different bar/club/restaurant. You don’t have to come here”
“So now your right to go wherever you like and be comfortable is more important that mine?”
“No, but if you aren’t going to enjoy yourself somewhere, why go there? That’s like complaining about the music somewhere you choose to go to all the time.”
“That’s ridiculous. Music is nothing like smoke. Smoke is unhealthy.”
“Music can be detrimental if it’s too loud. Should there be a ban on loud music?”
“Fine, smoke if you want. Can’t you go outside though?”
“Why should I go outside? You’re the one that doesn’t like the smoke.”
And round and round we go, no closer to a common ground. That’s why it takes a government to just come in and make a decision. People will b!tch and moan, but eventually they’ll get used to it and smoking indoors will become a ridiculous footnote…like smoking on airplanes.
104
Fascists. Let me kill myself in peace and spare me the constant whining of yer non-smoking agenda.
Do you drive a car? Do you eat meat? Do you buy products made from plastic? Do you heat your home in the winter? All of these things create pollution to the air that roughly 20 times more harmful to your lungs and the environment than smoking ever will be. So do yer research before bashing people.
I also love that you make blanket generalisations about smokers, the bottom line is… I WOULD be a perfectly curteous and respectful smoker if people like you wouldn’t bunch me up into a stereotype.
I do NOT take kindly to being trod upon by intolerant louts such as yerself.
Get off yer high horse and learn to operate a washing machine if you have such a radical problem with yer clothes reeking of smoke.
Please excuse me while I go wash out my brain to get rid of the stench of intolerance.
105
I agree totally. Let’s not give a shit about what people think about the smell, their clothes and their health or what they have to breathe while trying to enjoy a meal out.
There are lots of much easier ways to improve public health, like for instance disallowing cars, forcing everyone to become vegetarians, shut down all power in the winter, stop selling gas and oil, and last but not least: Let’s ban anything thats made out of plastic, especially in supermarkets.
Disallowing cars and banning plastic stuff would at least put an end to smoking for a while, but I guess the tobacco millionaires (aka grim reapers) would just start transporting the stuff in sailboats then, huh?
@Benoit: Have fun with your smoking in restaurants while it lasts. You’re fighting a battle you’ve lost already. I’ll be happy to take your verbal bashing while you try to come to terms with that fact.
106
If an entrepreneur wants to open a bar or restaurant that caters to smokers, s/he should be free to do that. As long as everyone knows the rules of the establishment before walking in the front door, then we can all pretend we’re grown-ups and make our own decisions (gasp!) whether to enter or not.
We don’t need our governments treating us like irresponsible adolescents. What’s next, curfews?—sleep is healthy! Trust us, it will be good for you.
107
I attend an alcohol centre because i’m addicted to alcohol. I have much experience in the dangers of drinking in public places and at home. It effects every part of your body, mainly your central nervous system. It leads to irrational thoughts like buying booze instead of food. You can become depressed, some people even commit suicide to escape the despair and misery that comes with a chemical addiction to alcohol.
At this group I have learned that I am not alone, there’s millions of us. Personally I think the dangers of alcohol are the same if not worse than smoke as it’s made my life a misery. Alcohol abuse has been my family for generations and it aint funny.
Therefore if we got to ban smoke and outcast smokers for being addicted to a cleverly marketed drug then we should do the same with alcohol. I suggest a total ban on alcohol in pubs and restuarants…
By the way Veerle this blog has been a real inspiration to me. I’ve learnt loads from your links page. keep up the good work.
108
Unsubscribing…
109
We already have this non-smoking policy in Toronto and personally I think it’s great.
Sure, those people who smoke should have the right to do so, but those who don’t smoke should also have the right to simply breathe in an atmosphere that hasn’t been imposed upon them.
The air in here’s gettin a little thick… and its not from smoke. :/
110
I just couldn’t manage to let this one go:
Comparing smoking to driving cars sounds like fun too:
Concider being a non-cardriver and being concerned about your own health, the local and global climate and other peoples health. Therefore you have decided not to drive cars. Imagine that non-cardrivers consisted of 50% of the population.
The other 50% were cardrivers who made remarks like: “Fascists. Let me kill myself in peace and spare me the constant whining of yer non-driving agenda.”, while they polluted the environment for both non-cardrivers and cardrivers alike.
Being a non-cardriver, wouldn’t you find the cardrivers’ attitude somewhat rude and inconsiderate?
111
Here’s what will happen: In 10 years, no smoking will be allowed in any restaurant in Europe. And all people will wonder what we were thinking before the new laws?
112
I completely agree with you on this. I wish all restaurants in the US would switch to non-smoking.
113
I wish more places in the U.S. were willing to take a look at banning smoking in public places. All of the people who have vehemently responded in this blog (or anywhere) defending their right to smoke in public (that is, around others) are choosing to be either (a) inexcusably and grossly negligent in their naïveté, or (b) selfish to a murderous degree in failing to address the fact that their actions in smoking are in fact killing other people and resulting in poor health for countless others.
How do you defend that, smokers?
114
I do wish anti-smoking individuals would stop treating smokers as pariahs. (Perhaps the US should try banning hugely obese people in public? Obesity kills more people in the US than smoking and sets just as bad an example to others!).
Smokers (of which I am one) have rights just as much as non-smokers do, but we do not have the right to make other suffer if they do not wish to.
I agree that those who smoke in places where it shouldn’t really happen are being utterly discourteous but that’s more to do with their mental attitude than anything else.
I have never smoked where it has been inappropriate; nor do I smoke in my car because even I can’t stand the stink afterwards!
115
Well, hugely obese people are banned lots of places because that they just can’t fit in everywhere, either because of their sheer size or because something can’t handle their weight. I could mention lots of public transportation, normal chairs at restaurants, carusels at amusement parks, lots of entrances and entrance doors, etc.
But then again: Comparing obesity to smoking just isn’t doable. Obesity is the result of for instance over-eating. The result of smoking can be lots of things, for instance lung cancer. The correct thing would therefore be to compare obesity to lung cancer. And lung cancer isn’t the thing that’s being banned, smoking in public places is.
So if you were to insist on still comparing obesity and smoking, I’d suggest you rather compare over-eating to smoking. Over-eating among guests in restaurants will not, as you all know, affect the health of the people who work there or the other guests.
... but by all means: I have no objections to letting smokers smoke whatever they want to smoke. Just remember that YOU chose that path - WE didn’t.
116
You’ve got my vote on this, Veerle. I hate the smell of my clothes after leaving for the evening and get serious headaches each time there is a lot of smoke around me.
Ban smoking from public places, such like bars, restaurants, stops of public transportation etc.!
117
Eventhough I am a smoker I have always tried to cause as little irritation with non smokers as possible. I refuse to smoke near people eating in a restaurant, prefering to go outside after my meal and have the ” after dinner ” cigaret there.
The only thing however that ticks me off is the fact that non smokers seem to feel they are superior in their lifestyle then smokers. Throwing around statistics is great aswell, but dont really tell us anything.
I for example, dont drink alcohol. It is proven that drinking even one glas of alcohol and then proceding to drive a car reduces overal controll and awareness of your vehicle and suroundings. Should I go on a crusade to lower the allowed alcohol promilage to 0 while driving a car?
Anyway, there is a fine line between protecting yourself (banning smoking in restaurants is a very reasonable thing to ask for) and completely advocating a ban on smoking in general. If you are lobbying for the later, you should be prepared to sacrefice some of your “privilages” aswell, which would lead to a snowball reaction nobody is waiting for.
Yes, protect yourself and your health. But with moderation and a non fanatic mindset please.
118
Great and insightful comment Iminay. I totally agree.
Btw: In Norway the alcohol limit has been 0,2‰ since jan 1st 2001, and it’s not legal to drive while you’re talking on the phone either.
Common sense tells you that these are sensible rules to obide by, even if they weren’t laws.
119
I’m also in favor of no-smoking in public buildings. I stopped going to one of our local clubs because I often came home with my skin smelling like smoke. Now thats just disgusting.
There is also the political side of not smoking. Anyone in the US is probably familiar with “the truth” commercials. They often commented on how corrupt the tobacco industry has become.
120
In norway we have had that law for a while now and it works well here. I have been a smoker for 10+ years now and i have no problem with that law at all. I infact think its a good law.
I do the same at home. When i want a smoke i go outside so that i dont stink up all my stuff. Yes i know that it will smell some, since i stink of smoke but it’s less then if i smoke inside.
121
... nothing like having paternal protective instincts. I have them since my wife got pregnant. Since then and now when i am with my daughter and i see someone approaching smoking, i immediately ask that person to turn it off or go away. Respectfully, of course. Because i am almost imperative, it always works. Needs guts, but it’s for a good cause. Well my father and sister are both cardiologists and i know what that smoke does…
There are places where i can’t seem to understand it: FNAC book stores should not allow people to smoke inside. Not even and specially in the bar area. I like book stores, and like to go there with my familly to regularly buy books and have a coffee and a cake or bread in peace.
I came from almost one month of hollidays and although i was in a very quiet and nice area, sometimes the sea wind bring allong that fetid cigar smoke smell… <g> !
I stand for total prohibition in public places. Enough is enough.
Smokers, use the damn nicotin bandages.
122
I would have nothing against banning smoking in all public places, but with the caveat that to be designated ‘public,’ a place must be publicly owned, such as a government building or school or public library. When you call restaurants and bars, which are clearly privately owned, ‘public’ places, you confuse any reasonable distinction, and you deprive a business owner of the ability to choose how to run his/her business and to what kind of clientele he/she can cater. I live in Austin where a full smoking ban went into effect recently, and it’s horrible, because now there are -no- places where smokers can go out in the evenings, we all just have to sit at home, and that’s ridiculous.
Let me clarify that before the ban went into effect, of the popular night spots downtown, at least 90% of them already prohibited smoking. That means for every 1 place we were allowed to enjoy ourselves, non-smokers got 9. I fully support the right of non-smokers to be able to go out to a non-smoking establishment with other non-smokers, and to protect their cute little pink lungs and come home smelling only like the sweat and body odor of a thousand other party people, but for god’s sake not SMOKE.
You don’t want to go to clubs and bars and restaurants where people can smoke. We don’t want to go to bars and clubs and restaurants where we CAN’T smoke. There are more of you than of us, but there are a lot of us. Does it seem reasonable that non-smokers get their way at ALL restaurants, bars, and clubs, so that the rest of us are left with no choice but to simply stay home in the evenings, making our own sandwiches all alone, while you have the whole world as your oyster?
The only rational approach is to have places where everyone can be happy. At least 1 in 10 private establishments should allow smoking, and if non-smokers don’t like that, they have 9 freakin’ other choices for each 1 we get. Let’s face it, neither of us wants to eat with the other group, so the only reasonable thing to do is to have separate establishments for our respective groups, so that we never even have to see or deal with each other, since it’s now been elevated to such a heated war-like opposition. I for one won’t hang out with non-smokers, because i find them as completely insensitive to my needs as anyone claims smokers are to theirs. We’ll just finish eating at a restaurant or something, and I haven’t smoked for 2 hours, and now they want to rush off to some other place immediately after paying the bill, and don’t seem to care that I need at least 10 minutes (which I already walk off and do 100s of feet from where anyone might possibly have to see or smell it). Face it, if you won’t let us smoke anywhere, we’ll just stop hanging out with you. But for god’s sakes give us SOME places we can go to hang out with each other.
123
Exactly.
@DG: I would agree with you, if it wasn’t for the fact that people have to work in places where there is smoke. Some people don’t have a choice either: They have to work to make a living.
Employees right to a non-smoking environment was the primary cause of the ban in Norway a few years back. There were an outrage here among the smokers too of course, and people had “no place to go” all of a sudden. This has cooled off now considerably, and smokers seem to have no problems with having to go outdoors for a smoke.
The only person I have heard complaining about the smoking ban in the last couple of years was a drunk homeless person being thrown out of a local mall for smoking inside.
124
@Torkil:
I would agree that workers should not be forced to inhale it, and I don’t know what the working situation is like in Norway, but when you’re in a city with literally thousands of restaurants, and millions of other kinds of jobs, the chance that anyone who was really concerned about breathing smoke would really be -forced- to work at a particular establishment which allowed it (which would likely describe less than 1% of available jobs) is really a red herring, as it is not realistic to attempt to justify punishing 30% of the population to avoid inconveniencing 1%.
Everyone has to make a living somehow, but we don’t tell veterinarians that they can no longer care for cats, because some small percentage of the population is allergic to them and might have to get a job working as a veterinary receptionist.
The fact that not every job is suitable for every person goes without saying, but given that a certain percentage of the population in any city does smoke, it is reasonable to assume that if only a matching percentage of available bars and clubs allows smoking, then that percentage of smoking employees will gravitate towards those jobs, while non-smokers will go work at one of the 9 out of 10 establishments that prohibits it.
Remember, I’m only suggesting that 10% of all bars and clubs allow it, and remember that MORE than 10% of the population smokes, so I think smokers are already taking the hit in this case.
The situation can even be likened to that of gay vs. straight bars and clubs. There is some small percentage of bars which caters primarily to gay clientele, who expect to be able to openly show same-sexed affection while in attendance, which some small percentage of the population would claim they cannot stand to witness on some religious grounds. The reality of the situation, though, is that typically anyone deeply offended by such things will simply not work at or patronize an establishment which allows or promotes them.
I do respect non-smokers’ wishes to have places they can go to eat, drink, dance, whatever, without having to breathe in smoke, and before the ban went into effect, 90% of all the places already did prohibit it. Smokers had a choice of -at most- ten restaurants in 100, while non-smokers could enjoy themselves at the other 90, a situation which was already disproportionate to the number of smokers (which is greater than 10%), but following the ban, non-smokers now have ALL the restaurants, bars, clubs, airlines, etc. and we now have NOTHING. Zip, zilch, nada, zero. That isn’t fair, it’s overreactive. And the reality of the situation is that many smokers would now choose a 6 hour car drive over a 2 hour non-smoking flight (with the added delay of security checks and deplaning, a 2 hour flight typically means 3-4 hours with no ability to smoke). That’s longer than some people can hold their bladders—just wait until they outlaw all lavatories on planes for security/terrorism reasons and suggest that you wear a diaper for the flight, then perhaps you may understand the feeling of long-term forced discomfort.
The moral of the story is, live and let live. We need to find an appropriate balance where every type of person has a reasonable expectation of a happy and comfortable life, and this is not satisfied when 70% of the population vote to outlaw the other 30%. High-level attempts at homogenization hurt minorities to placate the majority, when a cleaner solution is to have some of each, and allow each individual gravitate towards the environment in which they are most comfortable. People who do smoke or are not bothered by it should have places to comfortably dine, dance, AND work, just as those who are intensely bothered by it should also have a choice of places where it is banned. The all-or-nothing approach won’t work, you can’t just disenfranchise 30% of the population without other negative consequences on morale. Honestly if there were just -2%- of restaurants where I could go eat, I’d be pretty satisfied by just knowing that I had the option to go eat out, too. And at this level, the people who have 998 restaurants from which to choose who STILL complain that there are 2 they DON’T enjoy start sounding pretty petty, selfish, and unreasonable to me.
125
Sorry, I meant—0.2%—above. 2 out of 1000. A very meager selection of choices, probably consisting of Denny’s and one other place where the food probably sucks. And I’d still feel a lot less discriminated against than when that number is 0%. Come on guys. Give me 2 restaurants where my friends and I can enjoy a meal together for every 998 where we can’t. I’m a terrible cook so inviting them home isn’t a good idea. Name the places “smoky eateries” instead of “restaurants” if you want to be sure that no non-smokers ever stumble in by mistake. There really are several THOUSAND restaurants in my city, and since I can no longer enjoy any of them, I’ll probably end up moving elsewhere, depriving my city of a working, tax-paying member of society (not to mention the huge amount of money they’ll lose in cigarette taxes). Is 0.2% really an unreasonable high request? Honestly?
2 out of 1000?
No.
126
But why not just go outside to smoke? I see people do it every day at work, and every time I’m at a restaurant or a bar, and it does not seem that difficult: They just lift their butts up, walk 5-30 meters, open a door, goes outside, lights up, smokes, walks back in 5 minutes later.
127
Because when you have 5 people at a restaurant who want to sit around and drink coffee and socialize, then you either have to all go out at once, probably 5-6 times if it’s an extended stay, leaving the waiters worried you’ve taken off without paying, or you all go out at different times, meaning you can’t really have an enjoyable conversation anyway. At that point, what’s the point of even going out together at all anymore? This is why most smokers I know would rather just stay home or go to each other’s houses than put up with the fact that there isn’t a single restaurant or venue they can enjoy anymore.
Furthermore, you can’t go out during a movie without missing the plot. You can’t go out on an airplane AT ALL, unless you’re a bird. And every time you have to go out during work, your productivity and train of thought are compromised. When you’re at a restaurant or office where only smokers eat or work, this is unnecessary.
We smokers are not just some blight on your society, we are PART of your society. We design your computers, we fix your cars, we build your roads, and we write the movies you love to watch. When cities continue to make life difficult or completely unenjoyable for us, such as when there isn’t a single restaurant left in town where we can go out to socialize with each other, we’ll eventually leave your cities, and you’ll have to find new people somehow to do these tasks for you. Having worked extensively in the IT and computer repair fields, where 90% or higher of my coworkers have been smokers, I think the intolerant people of society may soon find that no one capable of fixing their problems wants to live in their cities anymore. We’re not moving out overnight, but believe me, when choosing a new city, cities where smoke-nazis prevail are simply not viable options anymore, as it doesn’t really matter what your city has to offer if we can’t sustain our lifestyles within it. We won’t move there, and eventually, we’ll pack up and move elsewhere, and your economies will suffer.
128
Well… you will get some serious problems when the smoking bans go national. What will you do then? Build a raft with a few fellow smokers and float in the Pacific forever to be able to smoke whenever and wherever you want? Smoking bans are going to hit you sooner or later, so my suggestion is that you stop whining and start adapting. For your own sake, for the sake of your social life, and for the sake of people around you, I suggest you try to quit smoking those deathsticks.
129
I’m also in favor of no-smoking in public buildings. I stopped going to one of our local clubs because I often came home with my skin smelling like smoke. Now thats just disgusting.
130
Another heated topic! Non smokers against the smokers! Yoohoo! Did you know it’s legal for rastifarians to smoke weed in the US because it’s part of their religion?
131
What about all the husbands and wifes whose partners dont smoke. They are watching TV and the smoke blurs the TV screen. Do they have rights?
132
Lucky you Veerle, in The Netherlands the only way smoking is reduced is by an appeal called “Gewoon gastvrij” introduced by the Dutch government. They encourage restaurants etc. to keep an area free of smoke, but they aren’t forced to do so.
On the other side, in contrast to legislation in Belgium, it will be prohibited to smoke in snack-bars and fastfood-restaurants in 2008.
133
Personally I think banning smoking is stupid. Like others have said let the market dictate itself. If a restaurant choices to go smoke free and you do not like smelling smoke go there. Or vice versa.
I don’t smoke and really hate the smell but just because I don’t like it doesn’t mean it should be banned.
Heck I can’t stand sitting next to people that have strong perfume on. I guess we should ban all perfume as well.
134
I hope it expands. Or possibly the EU are going to look at brining it in. We have had a blanket ban on smoking in all workplaces in Ireland for ?? 1.5 years maybe. I can’t imagine going back. Even though I smoke I love not being allowed to smoke in pubs, bars, restaurants or anywhere else really. Smoking indoors now feels downright weird.
:)
A
135
Instead of making restaurants smoke free, they should make cigarettes smoke free ;-) That would be the invention of the century, a cigarette that does not produce any disturbing smoke, so no-one is bothered, everyone is happy.
Apart from that, I really look forward to enjoying a meal in a smoke free restaurant, although I will probably wait for a few weeks/months before entering them, so that all smoke that has stacked up in those restaurants over the past years, has been vaporised (... and replaced by the smell of alcohol, farting, bad breath and doggie poo which got stuck on shoes).
Commenting is not available on this article.