Aug 28
Smoking in restaurants
2006 at 05.55 pm posted by Veerle Pieters
When I was playing tour guide for some friends here in Belgium, I was really disappointed that I couldn’t tell them that Belgium has a strict smoke free policy. When reading Peter Forret’s post from today I got reminded of something that me and my friends discussed also. I wasn’t sure anymore when the law of non-smoking restaurants would be in place so that one can really enjoy a meal without being disturbed by people who don’t give a damn about you still eating.
125 days to go
Just like Peter, I'm also counting down the days until January 1st 2007. From that day onward it will be forbidden to smoke in Belgian restaurants. We had to put up with it long enough! So far the good news because in our little country there is always a but...
Not in bars, cafes and snack-bars
You've guessed it, there is a compromise! Why in God's name can people still smoke there? According to the minister of public health it's because those places have a social and cultural role to fulfill. Excuse me? What's social about smelling like an ashtray when you get home and your longs full of smoke that you didn't want in the first place? So in those places it will still be allowed to smoke for a period of minimum 3 years. After that they can ask for a renewal. I don't know about you, but I am all for a total ban of smoking in all places. It's disturbing to read that more than 2,500 people die each year because of passive smoking in Belgium. That figure is more than double the amount of people that die from traffic accidents. So we can only hope that our government will see the light some day and wises up a bit and vote for a total ban. I'm sure many people would enjoy a smoke-free night out.
135served
1
And no more clothes smelling disgusting!!
2
I agree, smoking is a filthy habit, the worst thing is that most smokers just don’t have any respect for other people. When you ask them to put out their cigarettes they’ll just laugh or turn their back at you.
I can’t even stand the smoke anymore, it really gets to me, I often have to leave cafés to get some fresh air, and don’t get me started the day after a party, ..
(Most) Smokers are just asocial and non-smokers are being suppressed because of money reasons (taxes on tabaco) and stupid excuses.
3
In all honesty, it’s time this witch hunt is comes to an end. Yeah, I’ll probably get blasted because I called the crusade against smoking a witch hunt, but that’s exactly what it is.
And yes, I don’t smoke…
4
I’ve got to agree with you. Although I am an occasional smoker I am very thankful they’ve semi recently placed a ban on smoking in any enclosed building within my home state of Florida in the USA.
I will mention that we are still allowed to smoke at bars (places that make most of their income from alcohol sales and do not serve food) and I enjoy that concession on occasion.
Just my thoughts! Your site is gorgeous!
5
Here in Portugal, rumour has it (yes, because in a country where football scandals open all the 3 free-to-air channels’ news, this kind of information is bound to circulate in a rumour basis) that 2007-01-01 is the day zero of a “no smoking in restaurants, cafés and whatnot, unless the owner has the square meters and the euros to build independtly ventilated smoking/non-smoking areas” policy.
Of course, there’s also the big “but"---the cultural/social heritage of “hanging out in a café drinking a coffee and smoking a cigarette”. Smokers can get really offended at this “threat to their freedom”, and the owners of such places are afraid to lose clients*. The sentence “one’s freedom begins where the other’s freedom ends” is frequently used to call “pro vs. con” discussions a draw, but it isn’t usually used in the right way.
On a first analysys, on a cafeteria or restaurant, I have the same freedom of having a coffee without smoke being thrown into my lungs as the other person has to smoke a cigarette without me pouring my coffee down his/her throat. But if one freedom has to take over the other, it is, to say the least, fair that coffee drinkers pervail over smokers --- for the mere fact that the cafeteria is *the* place to have coffee.
There’s also the news that Starbucks (known for their non-smoking policy, with one excepcion in the whole world) is coming to Portugal. Let’s see if they don’t balk at the fear of losing clients, and withdraw that policy for the Portuguese establishments. In little little-minded Portugal, it’s the last hope I have to stop having to switch shirt after having coffee.
<small>* - For this factor, I find the strict no-smoking policy (no possibility for the owner to choose, or to be able to have smoking areas) more effective. If one can’t smoke in any cafeteria, owners can’t be afraid of losing clients to other cafeterias for that sole reason.</small>
6
I have to agree with Tim, I’m a non smoker also, but it really gets to me all this banning smoking everywhere. Why not just go to specific smoke free restaurants or whatever, why does there have to be a blanket ban on smoking? I recently heard there is no smoking on many of California’s beaches. How crazy is that? There are miles of coastline there, and you still can’t smoke on a remote bit of beach. There is even a whole town where you can’t smoke, yet huge cars still pump out smoke all day long.
Anyway, I think this is all getting a bit much, why does society have to always persecute a section of itself? Why not make arangements so that some places are designated smoking cafes, restaurants, whatever, and let the proprietors decide, then its up to the people whether they choose to go there or not. Why does everyone have to get so offended by the habits of others? Live and let live, I think it makes sense.
7
Speaking of generalizing.
8
I wouldn’t care if they required each bar/restaurant/… to have a no-smoke array (a REAL one, not as it is today in many Belgian restaurants), but why aren’t restaurant owners allowed to have a completely separate room where smoking is allowed?
If people choose to sit in the smoke, and the restaurant owner wants to go through all the trouble of making such a room, why don’t let them? (I wouldn’t sit there for the record, but why prohibit it...) I don’t like this overregulating.
9
I think personally that smoking should definitely be banned completely in all public areas. At the moment here in the UK they are going through placing a ban in food areas but I don’t think it has completely gone through yet. I think that if people want to do that then it is entirely their decision although enforcing that on other people without them wanting it, in my eyes is wrong.
Hope it all goes well for Belgium in the end.
Best wishes,
Mark
10
That’s great news Veerle! Smoking was banned in bars, restaurants, and cafés in Sweden in June last year, and it’s great. It’s absolutely fantastic to finally be able to go out without getting your eyes, lungs, and clothes ruined by smoke.
People who absolutley must smoke can go outside to suck on their cancer sticks and then come back inside.
11
@Maarten: Generalizing maybe… but it is the sad truth that most of the smokers just don’t give a damn. If they had the respect in the first place to not smoke while others eat nobody would need any law.
@SomeBelgian: It will be so that restaurants can have a “closed” smoke area (isolated from the rest) but just for smoking after eating not for serving food in there. It is up to them if they build it or not.
12
In Oregon you can only smoke in bars. Across the river in Washington, you can’t smoke in bars AND you can’t smoke within 25 feet of an establishment that prohibits smoking. (thats about 8 meters in Euro Speak).
:)
13
Hi,
very good point. They have the same kind of idea here in France… it’s on its way and hopefully, it’ll come very fast.
I’m looking forward to hear such a good news here in France. We already have smoking area and non smoking areas but imagine how it is in a 60 squarred meters restaurant :D
Non smoking people: our time has come!
14
As someone who loves smoking cigars, I try to understand those that don’t appreciate the smell and the harmful second-hand smoke and choose to smoke at my home, the golf course, and the cigar lounge at my local cigar shop. However, some US bans on public smoking are even targeting cigar shops. This just seems like a lack of common sense.
Someone going to a restaurant or even a bar shouldn’t have to assume they’d have to put up with second-hand smoke, but a cigar shop? I would assume that the name “cigar shop” would mean people will be smoking in there.
15
Here in Montréal they just banned smoking inside all public buildings, (it happened at the end of May), and I believe there’s a law about how far you must be from the enterance of a building to smoke. This means no smoking in bars, restaurants, cafes, and the like. People were furious here, (Québec has the highest smoking population in North America I believe), but I think it’s great.
But there’s a but. Smoking is still permitted on terraces, (what they call patios here), so to walk into a restaurant, bar, or cafe, you have to walk through the smoke and there is absolutely no chance of enjoying a smoke-free meal outside on the terrace as it is packed with smokers.
16
Veerle, one thing must also be said. In my now 13 years of travelling and living around Europe, I have always been proud to say that Belgium was one of the first countries world wide with an actually compulsary non-smoking area in restaurants, and even that Belgium was one of the first countries in Europe where tobacco advertizement was prohibited.
Can you imagine my surprize some years ago when I arrived in Germany, normally a country with a health(y) reputation and I saw streets with cigarette vending machines at the walls? Boards promoting new brands. Even the Marlboro Cowboy suddenly came back in my life.
As a smoker myself, I would rather prefer to have a separated smoking-allowed area in restaurants. Like the actual law was (1/3 smoking free area compulsary, but the law has never been enforced), just the smoking area being the smallest area.
17
Just this weekend I watched as a young mother walked her child outside of the Sea-Tac Airport baggage claim area to find a smoking area (smoking in Seattle is prohibited except 25 feet away from public doors/entrances). When she wasn’t able to (quickly) locate one, she lit up right were she stood—which happened to be RIGHT in front of a “Smoking Prohibited” sign, about 5 feet from a doorway. I approached her and pointed out the sign and showed her where the smoking section was. She rolled her eyes, sneered, and hurried her child away, as if I was some sort of predator.
I think nicotine does something to the logic-enabler in the head.
18
I smoked for almost 9 years and didn’t really care about how smoking affected people in public. When NYC put the ban on smoking in bars, I took that as an omen ... I had to quit, and did. ‘Twasn’t even hard, too.
19
Here is some stats:
-About 3,000 non-smokers die annually from lung cancer caused by secondhand smoke.
- 35,000 non-smokers die annually from heart disease caused by secondhand smoke.
The government should really think of it.
20
Veerle -
With a smoking ban comes a phenomenon that you might not like:
Smokers standing right outside the doorway or restaurants, bars, etc. where smoking is not allowed so that all patrons have to walk through a big cloud of smoke to get in the place.
I’m pretty libertarian/free market with my point of view. Despite my dislike of cigarette smoke, I’d rather the establishment ban smoking and not have to have it be a government thing. It works.
I don’t like the idea of taking the freedom to choose away from the establishment owner, the smoker, etc.
21
Sam, statistics can prove anything 78% of all people know that…
22
I understand the frustration. We’ve had smoke-free everywhere here in British Columbia for several years now - you don’t realize how bad it was before until you go somewhere where it’s still allowed.
23
I absolutelly agree. If it can be possible I would take cigarettes into drugs and other not allowed trash.
I got only 2 non-smokers restaurants in town… what else to say? To all smokers: please stop. It can be without this. You wold do better if you buy a chocolate to your children every day than a box of cigarettes.
And one more thing: I will never kiss a girl who smoke cigarettes. NEVER - it’s disgusting.
24
I’m totally with you on the smoking ban Veerle - just been to Scotland where they’ve had a complete smoking ban in all clubs, bars & restaurants.
It’s bliss. It really is! You come back smelling ok, your eyes don’t water at inconvenient times and you get to feel happy for not getting cancer as soon as otherwise.
Can’t wait for the Netherlands to catch up with Ireland, Scotland & Belgium!
25
I’m with Dave Simon on this one, let the owners of the restaurants decide.
If they keep this up they’ll have to ban wines as well. All that drunk driving and all, but I’m sure it’s not the same thing…
26
Here in Massachusetts, they’ve had smoking banned in any indoor establishment for a couple years now. The reason for the ban was not to help out the customers, but rather to protect the employees that worked there. The law was based around the idea that workers shouldn’t be forced to work in an unhealthy environment. There might have been a little bit of grumbling here when it first took affect, but it just seems normal now.
27
I love the blog and the great tips you share Veerle, but this is where I lose respect for you. Tedious whine, bah!
28
Yeah right, if we leave it up to owners we have no choice where to go or we have to drive some km’s to find one. A search for non-smoking restaurants on resto.be for East Flanders turned out 4 results on let’s say a few 100 in that province. This gives you a pretty good idea why a law is needed.
29
Vincent Mariani said:
If I needed to earn your respect by letting you blow smoke while I’m eating then I’m not sorry I lost it now ;)
30
That may be so, but I still have to meet that one person who listens when being asked to do so, so I don’t feel I’m wrong in my previous comment.
My friends even start smoking when I’m having dinner and are actually too ignorant to realise that it makes me lose my appetite. Damn that pisses me off.
I for one wouldn’t like to have to look for my own private restaurant because other people try to infest me with cancer. :s Smokers are the ones causing the smell and smoke (and occasional burns at party’s. >_>) while I don’t do anything to hurt them. Yet I should be the one looking for alternative locations to eat (or do whatever I want to do)? So illogical, I’ve heard this statement so many times, I still can’t believe it.
31
I have to say, Veerle’s point is well-taken by some of us. I agree with Sam up there who pointed out how many people actually are dying from second-hand smoke, and also Zach’s statement about the law that was passed in Massachusetts to protect employees. At least someone has some sense. It is a huge problem, and smoking is not a healthy habit for anyone. I think if people are going to smoke, it should be outside where the smoke can leave the building. I may be unpopular for saying it too, but I think we could all stand for some more healthy living habits - not just non-smoking, but non-polluting in general, and eating healthy foods, as well. There is a lot of cancer and you’d be surprised how much exposure to things like that on a daily basis can lead to it.
I would be quite happy if people didn’t smoke either, especially when you’re on your way to work and get blasted by someone on the sidewalk who is strolling along, oblivious to the people around them, not to mention they’re smoking any time of the day, not just at night or hen they go to a restaurant. It is really aggravating and if you have allergies, it is very difficult to breathe it.
32
Agree with you a 100 percent Veerle! There is nothing more I dislike in this world than a smoke of a cigarette. I don’t go to clubs JUST because of that, I avoid Birthday parties where I know smokers will be present....ughhhhh… I just can’t explain how much it bothers me. And if I accidentally happen to be in a smoky environment and it’s unavoidable then that day is destroyed for me and I can’t wait until I go home, take a shower and go to sleep with itchy eyes.
33
The smoking ban in Scotland was fantastic. I know people who still smoke, but they just walk out of the bar/pub to the smokers area outside.
Ireland brought it in, and it was great. Scotland has brought it in, and it’s great. New York brought it in, and it’s reat.
34
*sigh*
all i have to say is it’s better than nothing. as for picking non-smokey places, it’s difficult. there are a lot of place i like to go to but can’t (not can’t but b/c it’s smokey, i don’t want to) b/c i just feel and smell sick afterwards.
i don’t know. we just passed it here in Omaha, Nebraska, USA for places that serve food. places that don’t sell food, you can smoke in. but, 45 minutes away in Lincoln, Nebraska, USA it’s completely banned and we visited there one night and went to a few place and loved that i left the bar not smelling heavy with smoke.
hands down facts, it’s a bad habit, it smells, it’ll kill you and others around you. there’s no debate there. this is a good thing. do it on your own time in your own little smoking room and respect others around you. we do, after all, have to share this earth and some just want to live longer...and smell good!
:)
35
I totally agree! I used to live in GA where smoking is banned indoors. That’s ALL of the indoors. Here, where I live now, it isn’t that way and I am still not used to being asked when I go out to eat, “smoking or non-smoking?”
Sometimes it doesn’t matter if you are in the “non-smoking” area...the smoke wafts through the air and ruins my dinner :-(
36
I totally agree with you Veerle! Greetings from Brazil ;-)
37
The smoking ban in Washington, DC begins on that very same day. I am quite ecstatic about returning home with my clothes NOT smelling horrendous for once. I’m glad to see that other people seem to feel the same way. Most of my friends breathe cigarette smoke more than regular air. Needless to say, they are peeved by the ban.
38
Totally agree! . I’m glad I have a balcony where I can air out my clothes. I think Slovenia is getting in on this, but don’t know when. I also read that in our country this will not mean that you won’t be allowed to smoke in close quarters, just that the ventialtion system will have to be set up so that it will not bother anybody else. I hope that’s not the case in Belgium.
39
You are so lucky, you don’t know how worth can be. In Romanina (my country) is very hard to find a restaurant or a bar with a little space for non smokers. After you go with your friends to drink a cockteil or eat a cookie you must throw your clothes becouse of the smell.
I really wonder if something will change in this way after we will be in the European Union (i don’t know if we will be in the UE, yet...). Anyway it’s terrible, you know that we still have comercials on the streets with cigarets, and we can see comercials at the cinema. The cigaretes companies just make lots and lots of money just because the law is wrong. The cigaretes are very cheap and so on ...
40
It’s a very sensitive discussion, but I tend towards the smoking ban.
But what annoys me sometime is the arguments smokers give to ridicule a smoking ban:
* Cars and trucks pollute too! Forbid them too!
-> We NEED those, or our economy collapses.
* Why not forbid alcohol too! It’s addictive and unhealthy.
-> When I drink a beer next to you, you don’t have to taste it. You don’t get drunk. Your liver doesn’t start sweating… You’ll be fine. Of course: alcohol abuse is a diffirent story.
* Bars will go bankrupt
-> Policies in Ireland, Italy, Scotland prove otherwise.
I love smoking a cigar. Such deep taste, such aura, I love it. But I smoke it in a cigar club, once a week. Cigarettes are an insult to tobacco and it’s legacy. Smoke them if you will, but on your own.
Meanwhile, I’ll still go to bars enjoying a drink and the company of friends. But I’ll enjoy it even more without the scent of cancer candy ‘round me.
Dixi.
41
I don’t know how to really describe my stance on non-smoking. I think it’s fine to ban smoking in all public buildings, but I think banning smoking outside or in your own private homes or extensions of your home (like your vehicle) goes too far.
I don’t smoke and don’t care to, but I don’t think a person’s rights should be infringed upon because they smoke. A ban indoors is fine as it becomes a health hazard quickly. If someone wants to kill themselves smoking they can gladly do so outside.
There’s no anti-smoking law here, but there was one just signed. I believe the law just signed goes a bit too far as it could endanger restaurants that include bars (even if the restaurant bans smoking in the bar).
42
I absolutely agree with you, Veerle.
Here in Spain smoking is banned only in non-small bars (greater than 100 m²) but in most small bars people is still smoking and that’s really anoying when you try to enjoy a meal.
I’m told in Ireland smoking is banned in all pubs, that’s really great!
43
I’m pretty libertarian in my views as well, but I don’t think a smoking ban is too much government control. Think about it. If I walked into a bar with any sort of poisonous fumes emanating from me OTHER than cigarette smoke, the police would probably haul me off for endangering people’s lives! It’s a serious thing! We’re still recovering from the ignorance of the previous generations that didn’t realize that smoking was a bad thing.
Smoking really does Kill
44
Geert, the government has no right what so ever to dictate how a company should be run.
Customers however do, and if this is the big issue all the witch hunters make of it, the customers will force the owners to set up smoke free restaurants.
The fact that it hasn’t happened yet, I’ll leave that conclussion up to you…
45
THANK YOU SEATTLE!
I feel for you though, I moved to Seattle from an area that still allowed smoking in bars. So I just never went to bars.
P.S. First post ever.
46
Oh, and they banned smoking on the beaches in California because smokers consider the beach their ash tray. You look left, then look right, and your kid is chewing on a cigarette butt. Tasty, eh?
47
I agree that second-hand smoke is gross and I think the ban is a step in the right direction. Here’s the thing though: when you tell a smoker not to smoke in a bar you are not just telling him or her to omit something (like “stop picking your nose"), you are telling her or him to leave the building. Obviously, people hate to be told where they can and can’t go. I grew to sympathise with the smoking ban in Connecticut although it took a while, even after I stopped smoking a few years ago. I know that many non-smokers have smokers’ best health interests at heart as well as their own, but the simple fact of the matter is that when you say “don’t smoke here” it’s less like saying “don’t have one more cookie” and more like saying “go outside and stop liking the colour orange”. It’s a kind of social combat and smokers know it. That’s why they often tell outspoken anti-smokers to go shove it. If the advance of legislative bans is anything to go by then the anti-smokers will ultimately win this one, but they shouldn’t expect the smokers to go down without a fight because they hate being discriminated against, even if it is for objectively valid reasons.
48
What I would really like in restaurant is that people stop eating while I’m smoking.
49
Whatever. Just know that as a non-smoker, you are a superior being.
50
I’m suprised to see such a black/white view from you Veerle.
Like it or not, there are a lot of smokers out there. They are treated like murdereds almost these days.
I think a solution like in Belgium is best: not allowed in restaurants, but allowed in cafés.
Anyways, in cafés, I get more annoyed by drunk people then cigarette smoke. So why don’t ban alcohol too? :)
51
The crusade against smoking must go on. Smoking was banned in all public places in Norway back in 2004. Basically because of the health and welfare of people at work. People working in bars and resturants deserve a non-lethal working environment just as much as any other employee, don’t you think?
Even North Korea has banned smoking. You are not allowed to study at a University in NK if you smoke :)
52
@Veerle : quote “If I needed to earn your respect by letting you blow smoke while I’m eating then I’m not sorry I lost it now ;)”
I am a smoker, and I smoke in areas in restaurants where smoking is allowed. I am very carefull not to blow smoke in the direction of other people. If the restaurant is so crowded that non-smokers have to sit in smoking areas, I don’t smoke while they are eating. I understand why smoking is banned, but would much prefer it to be the decision of the restaurant/bar owner than a govenment decision.
I also think you article and comments don’t show any respect for smokers. Does the fact that a person smokes cigarettes make him a bad person?
Do you think you are better than me/us because you don’t use cigarettes to pollute the air, but only do it by for example driving a car.
I’m sorry, I always do my best to respect non-smokers, but it makes me sad that a lot of them don’t show any respect for smokers. I like to think people should be respected for what they are and not only if they are like me.
53
@Dries:
So blowing the smoke in a different direction makes it okay to smoke where people work and eat? What about some respect for the non smoking waitress that has to work there because she has no other source of income and no other jobs available?
If the restaurant had 6 meters up to the ceiling and really really good airconditioning, then maybe I, as a guest at a table 20 meters away or with a wall between us, could make it work, otherwise I’d have to disagree with you there. Blowing smoke in a different direction isn’t a solution to anything fresh air-wise.
I would not want to work in a place where people are allowed to smoke, but if I had no other choice, would you still feel okay with polluting my lungs, making me more prone to cancer and respiratory diseases?
54
Hysteria…
55
Hysteria or no hysteria… Claiming that you have a right to pollute the air I breathe either in my spare time or while I’m at work by saying “if you don’t like smoking - don’t go to/work at restaurants” just pisses me off. Of course it should be banned. It is bloody obvious: It’s a health hazard even for people who don’t smoke.
... and very inconvenient for people who smoke too, because quitting is difficult for many of us.
In Norway people have to go outside to smoke, and at hospitals, schools and similar institutions have large areas around them where smoking is disallowed too, so people have to go further than right outside the front door.
56
That’s just what’s the whole discussion is about. It doesn’t change a thing if you blow your smoke this direction or that direction. In the end the smoke stays in the room, no matter where you blow it.
It’s like a kid who wants to keep fishes and reptiles in the same bowl expecting the water for the fishes to stay on one side so the reptiles won’t drown. You know you need a Mozes to do that kind of stuff!
I used to smoke and I understand very well the fact why smokers defend their so said freedom. It’s not their freedom they try to defend but the fact they will feel terrible when they try to quit smoking.
57
Totally agree .... and for your information, in my engineering school (UTC in Compiègne, north of france) there is a bar called “picolo”. A survey was done to know the students percentage that was pro and cons the smoking tolerance in this place. I think (I am not exactly sure of the percentage) that more than 80% of the students were pro to BAN smoking in the picolo. Since this day it is no more allowed to smoke there and the bar is full of happy students now. The frequentation has increased too. Smoking is a lack of respect for everyone and oneself. I hope the logic will win against the lobbying of killers like all of them
58
A smoking section in a restaurant is like a peeing section in a swimming pool.
Smokers aren’t the personification of Satan. They’re people like you and me, but with a nicotine addiction.
I like the fact that over a 100 years, people will say to eachother: a 100 years ago it was still allowed to smoke, even where children were present, can you imagine that?
59
G’day,
This is always going to be a controversial issue whether you smoke or not…
But here in Brisbane, Australia it is now illegal to smoke in places that serve food or drink, even if the venue is outside I believe… Of course there are sectioned off smoking areas and such, which is good…
I think it should be your choice whether you smoke or not but it should also be your choice to be able to enjoy a meal or a night out without having to put up with everyone elses bad habit!
60
@Veerle Mon Aug 28, 2006 at 06.57 pm “@Maarten: Generalizing maybe… but it is the sad truth that most of the smokers just don’t give a damn. If they had the respect in the first place to not smoke while others eat nobody would need any law.”
I think this discussion has made so far already, and every duscussion has the same conclusion, the ‘smoke-haters’ are paranoid of smoke-air so they find smokers ‘respectless’ & most of all they say “When i ask them to stop they just give me a blink/laugh”. It’s very childish to say that in my opninion. (non-smoker)
61
I’ll come fart at your table and while awaiting your reaction on the smell, we can discuss your paranoid attitude towards completely normal bodily gasses. :P
62
@Dries:
The simple fact the one person doesn’t smoke does not affect other people’s health and confort, I guess you can consider that a non-smoker is a better person than a smoker (at least some of them).
Although, I don’t think non-smokers consider themselves superior to smokers. The fact that a person smokes, doesn’t make him a bad person, but it sure hurts other in some way.
I hope the smoking habbits become prohibited in all closed spaces as soon as possible.
63
I’m asthmatic and I do think that some smokers give a damn! Try telling me “No more chocolate!” on a bad day at work, I think the same applies to a smoker!
64
Tim Ceuppens said
Yes they do if public health is an issue. Those 3000 people who die each year from second hand smoke aren’t a made up story they are very real. Half of those people who die work in the “horeca” (hotel, restaurants, café) sector. How anyone with half a brain doesn’t get that and even worse calls it a witch hunt is beyond comprehension.
65
From now on…
SMOKING IS TOTALLY OUT!
It doesn’t match your clothes, your furniture, your hydrated skin… These days, smoking is something for old dirty bastards with a Winchester.
If a cigarette would have such thing as a Louis Vuitton patterned filter… BUT IT HASN’T.
Think again folks!
Smoking is so out, and so not done! The hype is over, go back home…
66
Here in the UK we are also counting down the days to the ban. But for some strange reason my government has decided to wait until July 2007 for it come into affect. I suppose one good thing is that unlike Belgium it will be banned in all public places. Happy Days.
67
Here in Alberta, Canada you’re still allowed to smoke until Jan 1st as well… unless its in a bar/restaurant that has already spent money to make a special smoking room. Like you, and thousands others in my province, I want a total ban. Frankly, I want to live.
The other funny thing is that here, it’s illegal to smoke on the patio of a restaurant. You can smoke indoors, but not on the patio… so what do people do? They jump the rail, stand on the other side (still talking to folks at the table) and smoke freely. Stupid, just stupid.
68
Geert, let’s not get personal shall we?
Anyway, the point I’m trying to make is that if it’s about preventing deaths, we should ban alcohol as well.
This is why it’s such a witch hunt.
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@Tim Ceuppens:
Are you serious? Nobody is banning smoking, smoking is just being banned from places where it is hurting non-smokers, for instance people who work in restaurants on a daily basis. Non-smoking waiters/waitresses probably suffer more from smoking related health issues than smokers do themselves.
People die from drinking alcohol of course, but alcohol does not pollute the air around you and serve as a potential danger to others when you drink it yourself, so the comparison is just ridiculous.
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Yes, there’s no danger to others when you drink and drive…
Here’s another reason why it’s such a witch hunt. We’re making all this effort in banning it everywhere, but there’s little to no effort what so ever to helping people quit.
Though, because of the black and white view here, I’m sure that you’ll say that they don’t want to quit.
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Torkil wrote…
“I’ll come fart at your table and while awaiting your reaction on the smell, we can discuss your paranoid attitude towards completely normal bodily gasses. :P”
LOLOL That’s great!
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I think it should be fair for everyone. There should be proper and distinguished smoking and non-smoking areas in all facilities - restaurants, bars and night clubs alike.
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Society is against drinking and driving. And they’re against smoking in public places as well.
Also, I don’t think any of the non-smokers here are trying to belittle smokers or claim that they’re better than them, or anything like that. The smokers should not see this as an attack on their character, but they should see it as an attack on their very bad habit that kills thousands of people every year.
Personally, I’m fine with smoking/non-smoking sections in a restaurant. I’d *prefer* that it would be totally banned, but I’ve never smelled smoke in the non-smoking section.
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@Tim..
You’re being silly. I mean come on. Why do you think there is a warning on every can of hairspray/paint/etc telling you NOT to use it in confined spaces because IT’S HAZARDOUS TO YOUR HEALTH if you inhale the fumes? But it’s okay to inhale cigarette smoke...when it’s not even by choice? Please.
My dad smoked for years and I have nothing inherently against smoking or smokers for that matter. Just do it where *I* don’t have to breath it. As a non-smoker, I am forced to make decisions (go there or not go there depending on how smokey it is) based on a smoker’s “right” to pollute the air. So where are MY rights? Don’t *I* have the right to go where I please and still enjoy clean air? Why should it be an either/or decision?
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Where do I state it isn’t harmless?
I’m saying that the battle against smoking is being fought wrong. Banning it everywhere serves no point what so ever, unless you take steps to prevent people from picking up smoking and help them to stop doing it.
Something that simply isn’t done now.
So I’m sorry that all you “half a brains” are “being silly”, but this is the end of the line for me here. When I get attacked, instead of the points, it just underlines that the witch hunt synonim is just right…
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Just want to make 1 thing very clear : I’m not against smoking itself, if you want to smoke, just smoke, be a factory pipe all you want, BUT do it somewhere where you don’t bother me with it. THAT’s the whole point and nothing else. I’m with Peter V. on this. Make it isolated and totally sealed off and they can do whatever they want.
Special thanks to Torkill :)
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There’s plenty of help out there to quit smoking. Wrigley’s spearmint, nicoderm CQ, all sorts of other patches. But in the end, there’s only so much society can do. Most of the smokers that I know are not trying to quit. I’ve never met a smoker who was honestly trying to quit, who didn’t end up quitting. The problem is a lack of self-control. It’s not that I’m unsympathetic, I understand it’s difficult, but there’s not much I can do about beyond simply encouraging them to succeed.
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I agree, Belgium is stupid
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Because it’s something nobody can do for you… You quit alone, you die alone…
The fact that all over the world smoking becomes less and less accepted, makes not all people stop smoking but discourages youngsters to start.
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This isn’t a witch hunt for smokers, it is a crusade for better public health. Confusing the two, like the Belgian government obviously has done when they decided to allow smoking in pubs of “cultural” reasons, might not get people killed, it WILL get people killed. People die of this shit every day.
When smoking was banned TOTALLY in Norway back in 2004, there was alot of fuzz from smokers who felt they were at the wrong side of a witch hunt. Since then, the government has had alot of educating TV-commercials among other things, and I personally haven’t heard any of my friends who smoke complain about having to go outdoors to smoke in a very long time. The number of smokers have steadily declined as well, so things are definitely getting better.
So it seems like the public is getting more educated on the dangers of smoking. One would think that the insanely large capital letters on smoke packs saying “this stuff WILL kill you” would discourage people from even opening the pack, but then again as the tobacco company slogan goes: There is a *sucker* born every second! ;)
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Bravo Veerle. Bravo! I live in southern American where smoking originated in this company. I can drive a few miles and show you a tobacco farm doing a booming business. Smoking in public establishments isn’t banned here, but most restaurants don’t allow it and it is a growing trend.
I have severe chronic migraines and have had them for the past 13 years of my life. The number one trigger of my migraines is an allergic reaction to cigarette smoke. When people argue for the right to smoke in public and say “Oh, it doesn’t affect anyone but me.” I am quick to point out that they cannot control their smoke. More likely than not, it is affecting EVERYONE around them. In severe cases like mine, I can be sent to the hospital by inhaling second hand smoke.
Smokers want to talk about unfair treatment, talk to me when your stupid addiction sends me to the hospital. Then we’ll talk unfair.
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@Tim Ceuppens said:
They have been doing all kind of campaigns for years, even harsh ones that don’t let anything over to your imagination and it still doesn’t help. Another measure is the price point to make it less attractive. Also the ban on cigarette advertising that is in place, the BIG warning on the package… should I go on? Maybe you never said it wasn’t dangerous but you definitely said it is ok to inflict it on others who don’t want it in the first place.
No point, are you serious? It only helps reducing less people die, remember the 3000 yearly. Why should we bother says Tim nice :) Banning has no point.
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@Torkil
Well, maybe I should really consider not smoking in restaurants. I can see the problem there. Restaurants are required by law to have good ventilation in the smoker-area, but they just don’t have it.
But I still think respect should be mutual. I respect non-smokers, when nobody is smoking I usually ask if it’s okay to smoke. And if someone asks me to put it out, I do. But that doesn’t happen often, what usually happens is people start complaining loudly to other people about how bad a person I am for smoking in their vicinity.
But this discussion can go on forever if neither party is willing to give in.
So let me add this : if someone (me for example) is smoking and you don’t like it, ask him/her to stop. If he/she doesn’t, complain, bitch, shout, scream, do whatever you like.
If you think he/she shouldn’t be smoking in the first place : just smile and be happy that you are perfect and people who aren’t like you are losers.
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Everyone can be rude, smoker or nonsmoker. It’s rude to smoke when someone is obviously having a problem with it, when there’s children around or when it’s very crowded. But it’s also rude to mock and condemn people for pursuing a habit they enjoy. It’s not like over-eating is that good for a person either, but America is overrun of people practice that habit with gusto. Why is it okay to mock and ridicule smokers, but then people get in an uproar if one was to say anything about a fat person?
Smokers should be polite and practice their habit discreetly. But at the end of the day, it’s a choice we make, just like people choose whether to drink, over-eat, do drugs, etc.
Smoking is often a social activity that goes nicely with drinking and hanging out, so it’s sad I’m not going ot have anywhere to go and participate in my favorite, albeit bad, habits. It bothers me that the government is making these choices for us. Why not give incentives to businesses to remain smoke-free, rather than dictating what people can and cannot do?
As long as the government is dictating which habits we can indulge in, I just want to know one thing: When are they going to put a ban on all-you-can-eat buffets?
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@Dries:
So you ask before you light up a cigarette? Thats thoughtful! Like: “Mind if I shorten your life a bit?” or “Mind if I make your clothes smell like sh*t?”.
Do you really think non-smokers enjoy the smoke?
I have had people ask me that too. Do I say “Yes I DO mind!”? No, I don’t. I’m too polite to say no, or maybe too afraid to disappoint or upset the other person if I do. “OF course you can smoke” is the polite and correct answer.
It’s like when someone asks you to do them a favor. Of course you’d like to do it. You like to help people. It’s the polite thing to do.
Remind me to ask you if I can fart on you should we ever bump into one another. I hope you’ll be polite too, and say “Yes, of course you can fart!”.
... I really have to stop comparing smoking to farting. Sure they both smell bad, but one cigarette lasts so much longer than one fart. Picture a 3-4 minute long fart leaving my anus in your precence, filling up the entire room with a really bad smell.
Another area where farts and cigarette smoke can’t compare, is the gasses. Farts consists mainly of nitrogen, which will do you no harm at all. Cigarette smoke, or passive/second-hand smoking can on the other hand be considered quite dangerous:
Possible short term effects include, but are not limited to:
• Allergic reactions (coughing, sneezing, runny noses, watery eyes, etc)
• Astmatics may experience astma attacks
• Headaches
• Nauseousness
• Sleepyness
• ... and more
Long term effects include among other things:
• Increased risk of lung cancer
• Increased risk of heart disease
• Increased risk of miscarriage and birth defects
• Increased risk of developing asthma, both for children and adults
• Learning difficulty in children
• Increased risk of lung infections
• Increased risk of ear infections
• Increased risk of allergies
• Worsening of asthma, allergies, and other conditions
So don’t ask people if it’s okay if you smoke. Instead, ask them if it’s okay make them feel sick, worsen their astma, damage their unborn child or make them more prone to lung cancer. For instance.
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Jen said:
You can’t compare smoking to over-eating or doing drugs. Smoking is accompanied by passive smoking for those around you - there is no such thing as passively becoming overweight because the guy at the other table is over-eating. And dhy do so many smokers you call it a social activity, when it health-wise is just about the most non-social thing you can do to the people around you?
.... I’m not mocking anyone. I just want to be able to make my own decisions regarding my health, as I am sure non-smoking waiters, waitresses and bartenders in Belgian bars want too, even after Jan 1st 2007.
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We have a strict smoking policy in Brazil. It’s not allowed to smoke in restaurants and malls for example.
Hey, Veerle, I’m recommending you in my blog on the Blog Day, ok? It will be on the 31st of August, and the idea is to recommend 5 good blogs you know that are different from your own culture. Hope you can join us! (www.blogday.org)
Bye!
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What’s with all the idiotic nonsense about non-smokers looking for special smoke-free restaurants? Are you kidding me? I don’t believe the sole purpose of a restaurant is for smoking! It’s for enjoying a nice dinner with friends and family outside of your home. Go to a bar, a pool hall, a bowling alley, a club, or wherever else that it’s acceptable, but not in a restaurant where common courtesy should be most important since people can’t just walk away from you (the smoker). Veerle is spot on with her post.
And if a smoker sneers or rolls their eyes when told to not smoke in a smoke-free area, it’s due to them compensating for their low self-esteem because they know they have an addiction they can’t control.
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“Oh, don’t smoke in front of me while I eat the dead, decaying carcuss on my plate.”
- How bout living a holistic life by becoming vegan?
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Ok, this topic is now officially out of hand.
besides, it’s not technically a decaying carcass since it’s been prepared. Roadkill is a carcass
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My first post here, nice site Veerle.
Sean said earlier:
I’m certain that it does. Smoking is a socially condoned addiction. By telling the smoker to move to the designated smoking area you’re impeding their ability to “get their fix”. They’re going to be irritated with you because they “need” that cigarette. Smokers will light up at a resturaunt while you’re eating because smoking is a selfish act of chemical dependance.
I may sound a little harsh but Veerle makes a good point in her post about respect. With all the evidence connecting smoking with cancer, it’s a testament to the addictive power of cigarettes when a smoker lights up in a public space and expects you simply accept it.
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I totally agree with the ban, like alot of people who have posted here I don’t go to bars and clubs for that one reason, because I hate the smell of smoke it just makes me feel ill.
This is my first post but i’m a long time “lurker” *grins*
great site
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“The market decides"…
Or: if there were a *real* demand for none smoking pubs, they would be there. Or else none-smoking evenings, or smoke-free-parties. None of them exist, and taken into consideration that at least half of the pub/club/bar owners are commercial businessmen, I can only conclude: There is no demand for this.
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@Bèr:
So if there is no demand, then why is it being legislated all over Europe, as comments here will tell you?
In Norway there were such things as none-smoking evenings and places divided into smoking and none-smoking lounges, and other similar things LONG before the ban went into place. I think they were there for a reason, don’t you?
The other primary reason the ban is being imposed, is the overall health effect it will have on the general public, so I’d say it’s primarily health oriented.
If your government wanted to ban really unhealthy food, and you thought it was unfair and you wanted to be able to eat whatever food you’d like, I’d gladly sign your petition. Of curse you have the right to do what you want to. But when we’re talking about smoking, an activity that affects the health of the people around you, I can’t see why you would object.
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The public house was considered central to Irish culture, but that didn’t stop them bringing it in here. If it can work in Ireland it can work anywhere.
One side effect you should all be aware of. Without the smell of smoke other odours are more easily detected.
That includes body odour and breaking wind...you’ve been warned.
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This is another one of those touchy subjects that irks people. Hey remember most governments are banning smoking because it saves them a ton of money on health care costs. Funny how the movement has been bigger in the US which doesn’t have national health care.
I’m in NY it has been banned here for a few years now. The first time I noticed was going to a club with my now wife. It seemed so clean, and when we got home are clothes and hair smelt the same way as when we left.
My wife is from Argentina and they just started down there. A country where people smoke everywhere even at work and in some hospitals! They were up in arms about not smoking at work. My wife called in on a radio talk show and told them how in the US people go on smoking breaks. They were confounded that this workaholic society let people leave their desk to smoke. Too funny.
I don’t know what the big deal is for smokers, some act as though it is some inalienable right for them to smoke when and where they please. Strange.