Oct 03
KBC Online sucks for Mac!
2005 at 01.25 am posted by Veerle Pieters
This post is a bit of a rant towards KBC, a big Belgium bank. I use KBC Online, their online product for wire transfers and other tasks. Now the part that really gets on my nerves is their stupid system requirements.
First of all they only support system Mac OS X version 10.2.3 till 10.2.8 and the only supported browser is Netscape 7.01. From all the browsers out there probably the worst recommendation you can get. Netscape 7.01 makes me sick, it is not only slow as a snail but unstable as well. You can count on a unexpected stop at least once per session.
We are dealing with sensitive material here so we need something secure and Netscape doesn’t cut it! KBC makes a statement on their website that they monitor the latest security trends closely. Well somebody must have missed the memo then about Netscape being unsafe and not recommend for use at all by Secunia.
Hello KBC we are not in the dark ages anymore there are far better and more secure browsers out there. Safari would be an obvious choice, but hey they don’t support it. I would like to know why! Safari was first released in 2003, that’s almost 3 years ago and it is still not working. The funny part is, at one part it did work very well for many months without any word from KBC on that. Now it still works except for the wire transfer part, that got screwed after a JavaScript update I think. So it is useless now.
Now I’m using Firefox but that’s not ideal too because it crashes once I load the beneficiaries that are stored on the server. The crash happens on other Macs too so it is definitely something reproducible. Firefox doesn’t work out the box too I first needed to download the Java Embedding Plugin 0.9.4.
The help-desk is filled with people who don’t have a clue about Macs and Mac OS X and I keep hearing promises that they are going to do something about it. So many time has past since then and there is still no official word on what is coming for us Mac users. Well KBC we Mac users are not second class citizens. We pay as much as PC users but we get a lesser service in return. Other banks can do it so KBC I need to know what is going to happen NOW otherwise you loose a business client!
If it is your developer that isn’t knowledgeable well get rid of them and look at what your colleagues are doing instead. If it is something you don’t understand from the Mac call Apple for help. I’m willing on getting the ball rolling if that’s what is needed. It is time to act NOW because I had enough!
If something doesn’t happen soon then maybe we need to setup a domain like [url=http://www.kbconlinesucksonmac.be]http://www.kbconlinesucksonmac.be[/url] and get some media attention. This kind of stuff happens all over the world and I find it not acceptable. If I screw my clients I loose them too. An excellent example of some bad customer communication.
34served
1
Well put, Veerle.
My bank, AXA, doesn’t support Macs at all, only the four biggest banks in Belgium do. ‘Not enough demand to justify the investment’ is their reasoning.
Oh, and if i’m not mistaken, the development of KBC online is bein done by a big internet firm in Ghent, so if you go on a killing spree, you’ll be back before dusk ;-)
2
Screw KBC, screw the others too, they only provide online banking for the Mac, but then all the hussle starts, with browser versions, OS versions, ... There’s only one that has dedicated soft for the Mac (for Linux & Windows too), there’s only one that even did market the fact that they had this dedicated soft (remember those ads with the green mouse & orange glowing Apple ?) and that’s BBL. Although they now go by the name ING, the soft remains the same. I’ve been using it since those ads, i even switched from another bank, just to have that little app on my HD. And i’m sure i’ll never switch back !
3
Silversurfer is completely right. The ING software is very userfriendly (altough they use 3 different screens/processes) instead of 1 canvas.
It’s safe (you can use digipass) and has some advanced features. (Graphing, tracking, making budgets). Thumbs up for the ING team who releases at least 2 or 3 versions each year. No problems with any of the tools over the last 2 years.
4
As you say, this situation repeats around the world. Here in Spain I *need* to have a PC *only* to access Deutsche Bank, with the latest version of Java removed and a very older version installed to let db page run. Also I need a 3.5” disk to save a key to sign transactions!!! Imagine the answer when I talked about this with customer care, saying that I have a Mac and perhaps without 3.5” drive. Who uses a 3.5” drive now?
Also I work with two more banks and they only work fine with IE (perhaps also PC version). These horrible things only happens with banks, some of them caused by their strange sense about security.
5
Veerle, calm down and use Camino instead of Netscape. Also uses the gecko engine.
http://www.caminobrowser.org/
Or you can use Firefox too. It’s not like Safari is the only good browser for Mac.
http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/all
:)
6
Fortis has an excellent web interface that works in every browser :)
No need for extra plugins, and I find the login procedure to be very secure!
7
This is so recognisable ! Over the past 15 years I’ve changed banks more often than some people change after shave. I was with Axa, KBC, VDB (2 different agencies), BBL (now ING) before I finally switched to a bank which doesn’t charge me for every button I push on an ATM, every deposit I make, every money transfer, VISA card, or.....
If you haven’t guessed by now: Argenta is my bank nowadays. It might not offer all the answers or possibilities you need, Veerle, but for a normal customer it’s definitely sufficient. They fully support our beloved platform, you don’t need ANY extra installations, and it works on Safari ! What more do you need ? Is it as safe as other solutions ? Well, I don’t need Windows or IE so that’s already getting rid of 12754 still to be discovered security holes. And so far, no money has mysteriously vanished from my account.
I finally found a solution that works, I even have lower bank costs, and that makes me a very happy customer !!! www.argenta.be
8
Sure, I can only speak for me, but I am really satisfied with my bank (Postbank) - no browser that I use that I can’t use to see my money shrink ;).
9
Dexia fully supports al popular browsers on mac, so I’m thinking towards switching too (not switching to PC, this much should be clear).
I got promises from the KBC helpdesk a quadrillion times that something would be done, but… right.
I fully support the idea of starting our own customer ‘support’ website.
10
@Element: Did you actually read my post? I’m using Firefox right now but it crashes when I load beneficiaries. So I can’t access my account numbers etc. Camino is one sweet browser but when I use it on the KBC site it’s sooo slow that it is barely usable. Loading the wire transfer document takes ages for example.
What I want is a working solution in a modern browser and if that’s not Safari no worries as long as one solution works flawlessly. Now they all have some hassle that I have to deal with. KBC just keeps recommending Netscape 7.01 and that’s what this post is all about.
11
As mentioned already, Fortis has done a neat job; their pc-banking solution is, as far as I can see, pretty OS-independent and works flawlessly on Mac with Safari. As long as you use a digipass, that is; they also offer a CZAM-PC Card reader solution if you like, but that is, alas, PC only… That allows you to charge a proton card from your own computer, but apart from that, the digipass works fine and Mac-users are not limited to basic functionality or so.
12
Veerle, KBC-Online should work with Safari. The problem with the wire transfer part is not a KBC-issue but a bug in an earlier version of Safari.
13
Veerle,
With the latest version of Safari KBC Online works again. (Like it did with the Safari Release about 3 service packs ago).
Although it works just fine now with Safari the KBC Online homepage tells you that you should use an obsolete version of Netscape.
The ony thing KBC should do is update it’s minimal Mac requirements to the latest version of Safari.
(Firefox and Opera also work with the latest Java plug-in)
14
@Joeri: You got to be kidding here ;-) I’m using Tiger (Mac OS X 10.4.2) together with the latest version of Safari 2.0.1 (412.5). You can always come and take a look if you don’t have access to the latest versions. My Mac has ALL the updates installed. So please don’t make that kind of statements unless you have tested and have proven it to me. Putting the blame on Apple is lame! This has been going on for ages and I am no idiot, I have tested and wasted my time on this for a months now with every update that comes out. (and every update to Firefox, camino etc)
@Joeri, Jochem: I just tested it again right now and the wire transfer feature don’t work. If I click send nothing happens (after I’ve clicked OK on the confirmation altert box). And this doesn’t only happen here on my Mac. Two of my friends experience exactly the same behavior. They also have all the updates installed.
If you load the beneficiaries in Firefox, the browser crashes. This also happens exactly the same on one of my friend’s end.
15
You’re totally right Veerle. If you pay for a service, it should work, no matter what OS you are using. I’m an Argenta client and their website does what you expect it to do. Sure, it’s quite basic, but it always works (and it is safe)! And that’s more important to me than some fancy features I will probably never use.
16
Banks… never got it anyway....
17
Het klantenbeleid en de PR-afdeling van KBC zijn vooral afgestemd op de doelgroep 10- tot 12-jarigen. Hier is het bewijs.
18
Indeed… you are so right! Why don’t we all send a complaint letter to KBC? I hate it when they neglect customers this way. A friend of mine started working at the KBC and I’m sure that in a few years time he will be part of the webdesigners group… then we’ll have a nice looking, fully Mac compatible, KBC Online application! ;)
BTW, what do you expect, the KBC Online backend is written in Cobol. Do you need a picture?!
19
With good design, the client browser shouldn’t make too much of a difference. Requirements to use particular browsers often results from programmers with limited knowledge of how the web works outside what they develop with.
When reviewing a document system bought by a section of company, I listed a range of errors encountered using Firefox. They responded saying they only support Netscape 6 (!) but sure enough when I actually tested with NS6, the site failed in exactly the same areas.
On a positive note, a concerted effort by Mac users here in Australia convinced the Commonwealth Bank to make their online banking Safari friendly. On the other hand, the National site works flawlessly in Safari and Firefox and yet I get a message telling me to upgrade to the latest version of Netscape… at least it works!
20
I installed a KBC Netbanking yesterday on a Mac. And it seemed to work…
-But it is good to read your problems, since probably the user will contact me when the system is lacking...-
I have Dexia -which works, but not always perfect-
and Fortis -which always works-
Since I once lost a card and had to wait for ages to get a new one, I decided to go along with 2 banks.
-I can’t imagine residing abroad, losing a card, and have to go through all the fuzz of finding a solution for it-
The 2 banks were extremely tested on client service, technical possibilities, and internetbanking.
None of the 2 are perfect -can somebody tell me one bank that is perfect, that doesn’t hit for your money???-
but I can live with the way they are working now.
KBC I kicked out. Because of the internet mess and many more reasons. And smaller banks, well, as someone said above: are they willing to do an effort for making a system that works for mac users? So just stay where it is working well..
21
Very surprised to read that Dexia netbanking should work. Last time I tried - earlier this week - I get as far as the grey Java box appearing on my screen and that ‘s it - it stays like that forever. Running a fully updated Tiger on both my PowerMac and iBook…
22
Let’s start with a collaboration on a letter; Would someone propose the basic content (I suggest it’d be in Dutch)?
If we don’t get an adequate response, we can continue our “fight” with a community website.
OK, what about this for the first part:
“Geachte heren,
als lezers van Veerle’s Blog, terug te vinden op het Internet onder het adres http://veerle.duoh.com, kunnen we als Mac-gebruikers vaak van gedachten wisselen omtrent thema’s die ons besturingssysteem aangaan.
Recent startten we een discussie op dit blog omtrent de aanslepende problemen die Mac-gebruikers hebben bij het gebruiken van een van uw producten, KBC-online.
Meer specifiek situeren de problemen zich in het feit dat niet één populair of kwalitatief browserprogramma, zoals daar zijn op Mac Safari, Firefox, ... (aan te vullen), compatibel is met de functies in KBC-online.
Na het toepassen van enkele lapmiddeltjes lukt het ons soms om een overschrijving uit te voeren via het systeem, maar dan kunnen we zeker niet gebruik maken van de toepassing “debiteuren” (wat de KBC-online zo handig maakt) en loopt de browser veelal vast, wat meer dan enige frustratie opwekt.
De KBC-helpdesk suggereert steeds het gebruik van een oude versie van de Netscape-browser, maar dit is gezien de leeftijd van deze toepassing, de gebruikte technologie en het ontbreken van enige stabiliteit van deze toepassing op ons besturingssysteem Mac OS X, niet aanvaardbaar.
Deze problemen werden door vele gebruikers reeds aan het KBC-helpcenter gemeld, echter telkens zonder afdoende gevolg.
Wij hopen met deze laatste noodkreet uw aandacht te kunnen vestigen op dit probleem en bieden u meteen een grote test-gebruikersgroep aan. Wij zijn immers bereid samen met u om een oplossing te zoeken.
Gezien KBC-online een essentieel deel uitmaakt van de dienstverlening van de KBC-bank en wij de toegang tot deze dienst op deze manier praktisch ontzegd worden, overwegen wij om per 1 november 2005 het aanbod van andere banken te bekijken en over te stappen indien u ons niet van afdoende antwoord kan dienen.
Hopend op (blah blah blah)
en dan onze namen eronder
Wat denken jullie?
23
Well, I’m not very satisfied with the KBC web app either, because using it requires me to either boot my Linux desktop machine or doing my bank stuff at work. However, the web app cannot be the only reason for choosing a bank, now can it? Besides, when it works (on Linux/Firefox), it’s pretty handy. I think.
24
We’re not only neglected by banks, others do the same thing. It’s simply going for the biggest target group. In April it did almost the same thing and complained on my weblog ( Silversurfer.be ) about the new Telenet PCTV service, which, as the name indicates is a “PC"-service, other OS’ses, other browsers, other media-players were not allowed.
25
I also think that a collaborate action may help. Especially if a lot of webdesigners/programmers sign the letter. This will let KBC know that this is a serious complaint, written by people who have the knowledge to fully understand the problem. But maybe we should give them a bit more time. What about a nice gift for the New Year, a deadline on 1 January 2006?
I also have had a lot of trouble with KBC-online with my Mac. Everything works fine, except the wire transfer, which is in my opinion one of the most (if not the most) important part of online banking. Like many others I complained, but never got a solution.
26
I’m not a KBC client, but i feel your pain.
In a happy mood, looking to book a citytrip, i visited www.neckermann.be My happy mood soon changed when my Safari just crashed! I’m not sure if Safari shouldn’t take some blame for just crashing… but if you look at the source code of neckermann.be or thomascook.be you kinda get the idea what’s going wrong here. (opening 3 or 4 html elements in one document… original concept :-)
It took me starting up virtual pc, and IE only to find out why the contact link on top was not working (FF or Opera). It’s a dropdown menu, only working in IE…
I just sent them an e-mail in the same style as the ones found here. I’m wondering what type of reaction i will recieve.
Sometimes we ‘standard compliers’ might think the internet is evolving in the right direction, but with sites like this we’re all quickly reminded that there is still a long way to go.
27
A healthy company only invests in 20% of the browsers that are used by 80% of the clients.
Can you blame them that there site is not working for all browsers? There are a lot of browsers, who can say that he knows them all? They could better give us more money on our bank account.
I understand these discussions, sometimes i’m also frustrated because of these things. But KBC is not university, where they have enough money and time, so can you blame them?
28
@Wim: Making your site work in all browsers doesn’t cost any money if you start the right way by using Web Standards for example. If you do that there is no extra work involved.
This discussion is about the fact the we still have to use an ancient browser that isn’t secure etc. We pay as much as PC users and they get all the tweaks like for SP2 for example. It is about honesty towards us clients, now they support Mac but in years there isn’t any progress and that is wrong. If they have no intention in supporting more recent browsers then the only wise thing to do would be to confess that honestly instead of all kind of empty promises.
29
Its the same at Dexia, try to login with Opera 8.0 and a great sorry-screen appears.
30
Wauw! Dit is de eerste keer dat ik op een mooie (mac/html) site kom via een aantal design-sites, waar een Belgisch/Nederlands sprekend persoon achter zit!
Thumbs up voor u! Prettig design ook trouwens ;-)
31
My girlfriend uses KBC Online too, but with the o-so-slooow Netscape and with the current OS version.
Me, I’m on VDK Spaarbank. I’ve had to wait a couple of years before they finally got a Mac compatible online banking system out, but I must say that it works really good. But… they definitely need a better graphic designer. ;-)
32
On Camino, KBC-online works (wire transfers and loading of beneficiairies included).
If necessary, load the java plugins javaembeddingplugin.bundle and mrjplugin.plugin
Would be nice though, if safari was fully supported.
33
This is so true. KBC is promising for a long time a decent solution for OS X users. But month after month they screw up. It is one of the worst banks in this.
I hope that someone of KBC reads this and finally ring the bell.
34
Hey Veerle,
Maybe you should ask for the “KBC-online local” package! I’m not sure wether it works on Mac but (yes, I’m one of those PC-geeks that uses another OS) ;-) The big advantage of the online local package is that you prepare everything locally before submitting it to KBC!!! No long sessions online, no need for a browser that might not work… KBC is not really keen on advertising this product, but it’s still available and if you have a “plus"-account it’s even for free. You might have to pursuade the person at the counter that something like online local exists, but I found it to be worth the trouble…