Jun 01
Designers equal to programmers?
2005 at 11.54 am posted by Veerle
Not so long ago I received a few e-mails from beginning designers who asked my opinion about the value of a designer versus a programmer. They said that they often got the reaction from programmers that a designer is less valuable and that the hourly rate should be much less then what a programmer charges.
Well, I don’t agree on that. Of course there are exceptions (like specialist in certain areas), but in general like for instance a back-end programmer versus a designer of a website, I think about them as equal value. Of course price setting depends on the type of job, how much experienced and how talented you are. Those are the most important factors. At least that’s how I see it. But of course if you are still a beginning designer this is often a harder nut to crack because then it mostly depends on how desperate you need the job. If I see how much I charge now compared to what I charged in the early days, there is a huge gap. It’s a struggle those first few years between deciding on not going too low and being reasonable. Charging too low almost always backfires if a client asks you do another similar job.
But this remark wasn’t only about the money, it got also to do with the value of the job in general. Some people are convinced (unfortunately for them I would say) that design is just less important then the ‘engineering’ part. If you think about this in general, then this would mean that the design or the look doesn’t matter much. If the engine is OK then why bother about esthetics? Wrong. For example let’s take a car with the best engineering in the world but with a ugly body, would you buy such a car? OK, maybe a drastic example, but still, it matters more then we think. It’s in everything. It’s not only important for a website project. Same goes for the interface of an operating system or an application. These things need to be intuitive and user-friendly. Design can do so, without the correct design functionality is lost… the user is lost. Both need to go hand in hand, they both need each other. That’s how I think about it. I certainly don’t think less of the engineering or development part of a job or product. Maybe you can argue about this, since in some areas design matters more then in others. But if you think just globally in our every day life, design plays a big part.
What do you think about this subject?
53served
1
i have to say that the design is as important as the engine part, they have to live in plenly harmony to have good results.
nice post.
static/
2
is there any problem of the typography of this blog.
3
maybe you don’t have a default font?
4
It’s not only packaging, it’s INTERFACE. A great engine (be it physical or virtual) is one thing, but DESIGN is what allows you, as an individual, to interact with it. You don’t remember the engine generally. It either worked or it didn’t, but the manner in which you were able to control the engine makes a world of difference. Just think about all the different types of car interiors. Some are easier to use than others. The same is true with backend systems or applications that have interfaces. A good interface lets you use the power of the tool without knowing how the tool works.
So to a programmer who’s built the system, design is less relevant because they know the system inherently, but to the person who has never seen it before, design is the one thing standing between them being able to use the system or not.
And when that equates to an end product deliverable, I’d say that design makes the programmer’s product marketable. Otherwise, it’s another system that no one can use with a 1,000 page user manual that no one reads.
5
I’m still relatively early on in my career, and I’ve spent half of it doing programming, and the other half doing design. Have worked on both the engine and the asthetics, I whole-heartedly agree that design is at least as important as the back-end functionality. If you have a pretty website that doesn’t work, you don’t have a success. If you have a completely functional website that no one can stand to look at, you don’t have a success.
The misguided belief among engineers (and others) that design is worth less than the programming is sad, and was one of my chief motivators in making my title (I had the luxury of choosing mine) Web Developer, as opposed to Web Programmer or Web Designer. I thought either of the latter titled could automatically stereotype me in certain crowds.
In my opinion, the belief that programming trumps design has caused some programmers to drop the ball on interface details that relate to their backend. An example - I recently tried to sign up for online billing with my phone provider, using the account number and pin provided in my mailed statement. The account number is 12 digits long. Unfortunately, they only wanted me to enter the first 9 digits (this was only mentioned in a supplemental help popup) of the account number, so I got kicked out several times before figuring it out. Here’s the kicker, and the point: the max width of the input field was set to 10. Not 9, which was requested, not 12, the length of my account number, but 10. To me, this isn’t necessarily the responsibility of the designer who handles the presentation of the website, but rather the responsibility of the programmer (assuming there isn’t a dedicated front-end programmer - I’ve not experienced having these jobs separated).
Both parties bring a lot to the table, and should really try to appreciate the work of the other.
Great post, and great blog.
6
Esthetics are not as important as the actual engine. If you have a plain white form compared to nice colors, beautiful graphics etc, it will still work regardless of what it looks. If you have a bad backend, or engine, or whatever you want to call it, the system might interact very slow, might have security risks, might not be doing what it is supposed to be doing, etc. In the end, the company will be losing money because of the actual engine, not as much because of the design. Users get used to the layout/design of an application, and as long as it performs the work it is supposed to without any problems, they will continue using it.
I’m not saying that the design doesn’t matter, because it does to an extent. But developing the actual works of the system, take up more time, more analysis, more planning, more testing, etc, that’s why it’s more important and the developer should get paid more over the designer.
I’m a developer/designer at the moment, and the institution I work for doesn’t care much about the design, as long as they can get their work done without any interruptions and as fast as possible, and can expect for everything to work the way it’s supposed to without losing any data, having any bugs, or any security risks.
7
Personally, I’m a zero when it comes to design. I have no design background, I just know my way around (x)html, css and some Lasso programming. There are plenty of times when I look at a web site and think: “why couldn’t I make something like that” ?
To cross over to another field: look at Apple. They design great-looking stuff, it works as it should, so I love using it !
So, bottom line: design is important, as is the technical part of things. It should look good, and work without glitches. Combine these two skills, and you almost always have a winner.
8
I think the designer put the final and the most important touch in a work. The designer must know the client and the public target to do his work. The design must represent the public and in this way the result will be user-friendly. This is the guide for the eye. The programmer do the interactive or the underground part. He make and put the elements in place and after that, the designer do the visual things to make a good presentation. Designers and programmers does different works but they are both important.
9
The company I work for used to emphasize Creative over all else. Technology got pinched on schedules, budget, and appreciation for all the best practices work we made sure went into every project whether it was recognized or not. Now, after some management and philosophy shifts, Tech (where I work) is emphasized, Creative de-emphasized and trimmed from get-it-done/give-them-what-they-want (as opposed to striving for excellence and awards) projects.
Neither approach produces stellar work that everyone’s excited about.
10
Very interesting question, my conclusion would be that it depends. Some applications I could see the programmer being the hero, some the designer, sometimes both. I must say though that lately it has been my observation that more and more the web is being ruled by programmers with design being added to the title of what they do, yet often the sites they build, the applications they rave about, really do nothing to help the end user, its just another set of rules we the user must learn to just experience their site. Design goes beyond graphic design, especially in the interactive experience that is the web.
11
Veerle,
I think you have hit the nail on the head here.
After working for 5 years in this Industry, I have realized that style is as important as substance. In some scenarios, a great style help you even if you don’t have lot of substance. You will have a winner if you can combine the two. For example, an iPod.
So even though I am programmer, I completely agree that design is as important as programming. That is why I have been spending time understanding color theories, typography etc. so that I can offer more value to my client. I think even little design knowledge can help programmer in a great way.
JD
12
A good design is as important as the programming. The only problem is that there are too many crappy designers out there or designers that’re not really designers..
13
The design is always the most important.
The design of the interface, the design of the site’s content, the design of the navigation, the design of how the site actually interacts, that’s what’s important.
Sure, there’s also elegance to be found in code, but with so much prewritten code out there (weblogs, elaborate cms’s, etc), the design is what has become most important as it has to be fitted to each specific instance.
That’s also the reason front-end code deserves more attention than it gets, as it too must be fitted to match the requirements of each specific design.
In short, the design of things is a lot more usefull to users than how the backend works.
14
Great post! I think it depend on what side you are on. I’m a designer (beginniner) but I would love to understand what programmers goes through. Of course I believe that the design is more important and its the programming that helps give it that extra something. And the quesion about pricing, it a hard one to answer. Especailly for me because no one is will to pay my price. I been told that $300 is too much for some really simple.
15
i think in the end, a programmer put design a functional piece of crap… but can the designer make something beautiful functional?
that said, i still think they can live harmoniously. i think david shea should get much more money for design than some random hacker pulled from a bulletin board.
if i were to compare jason santamaria and harry feueks from sitepoint, i’d say my bias opinion would go toward harry.
16
There are really three aspects: 1. back-end design/programming/engineering. 2. aesthetics/graphic design/look ‘n feel. 3. Usability/human factors/intutiveness. All three are equally important. Programmers usally get paid more cuz without the thing functioning you have nothing. If the designer makes it look good and also easy to use, then that is very important. Human factors and usability is extremely important, but not always appreciated, unfortunately. Sometimes creative design artists will make a beautiful design, but ingore human factors, and that’s very bad.
17
As with Jeff Sargent above, my job description is Web Developer since I’m responsible for both design and programming. Regarding the importance of the two, I don’t see how design and logic can be easily separated as both are integral to the success of any project - if only this concept could be imparted more heavily upon decision makers!
18
Less than a programmer? Is that possible? I guess that is all who you are working for. I’ve done design, I’ve done programming; at my job I do a lot more programming than anything. And those who program are just too cocky. I know more languages than anyone else I work with, yet I am less cocky about it. Programming is a great skill to have; but what the hell is the sense of creating a great application if you do not have an easy to use interface to go along with it?
Whether it is a web based application, a Windows, Mac, Linux application, a kiosk, an automation system; without an easy to use well thought out interface to communicate with the system the application itself is worthless. Hell, if everyone was a programmer we would all be working command lines because we would already know how to interface with the application. You need someone that can take look at what the programmer is trying to do, and then look at how John or Jane Doe will end up perceiving it.
I think designers are more valuable for the fact that they have to look at it from two different perspectives. Just my opinion.
19
I have had the pleasure of working closely with programmers and encountered few who would think a designer is worth less than a programmer. I also encountered a few other designers who thought programmers worth less. It’s all a matter of perception and most of the times it rests with the one paying the bill. If a client values aesthetics for his/her project, no expense will be spared for a beautiful design. If the client wants functionality, good money will be spent on getting a talented developer. And if the client wants both form and function, he/she better hopes the designer and the developer can communicate effectively.
On a biased note, a good designer these days don’t just create Photoshop layouts and build HTML pages. We are professionals who focus on interface, usability, web standards. We find the best methods of effectively communicate the message, devise the most logical way of grouping information so a web app can work better and we help present and strengthen a brand. We are thinkers and explorers who actually stand side by side with programmers and developers to make the web a better place.
Anyway, just my two cents. Canadian. Which is about 1 cent US.
20
One important thing to note. All three of the specialists mentioned need to be willing to work with each other.
When a programming makes an application, he/she has to lay out the framework and should always have a rough idea of a wire frame created by a UED or ID. It needs to coorelate with exactly those steps. In some cases, a programmer is asked to come up with that (which isn’t exactly programming - it’s ‘site mapping’) which unfortunately isn’t there job… or some other guy does it who doesn’t get paid as much as they should (just like mentioned earlier, UED’s don’t get paid enough!)
When it comes to designers, there’s nothing worse than when they go off on a tangent and create some great piece of artwork that a developer can’t use or wasn’t covered in a PRD (product requirement doc)...or better yet the functional spec.
I think as far as things just ‘being easier’ I do believe (and i don’t mean to offend) the designer has the easiest job. Often times developing applications requires applying application logic, calculus, pseudo coding, getting things down to a science.
Then again, it’s mostly science for a programmer...wheras a designer rarely has boundaries, so it could be tough seeking out just ‘what to do’ and getting a feel for the target audience. They’re also responsible for ‘first impressions,’ and they are afterall ‘the public face’ of a developing team.
21
A website needs good programming (correct markup) to be found in the first place, then it needs to look good and be easy to navigate to keep the visitor on the site (design).
It needs to work well so the visitor has a pleasant experience using the site (programming).
All these things combine as one so that the visitor comes back again and recommends the service to others.
The two are therefore equal.
Neither is easier than the other, it just depends on what you prefer to do – design or program (or both,in some cases).
Great post, by the way, this had me thinking for a while!
22
I’m an interface developer and I used to see myself as a link between the backend developers and the designers. In my opinion both design and programming/system optimizing/usability is vital, but none of those is the most important part of a website - content is. You will find that a site can be ugly as hell, built using tables, buggy javascript and bad functionality, but if the content is good enough people will still visit the site. If you take Veerle’s car comparison, I guess this would be the kind of site that always starts and gets you from a to b without any problems :)
Having said that I still find it incredible that there are small battles going on between designers and developers. From a developer standpoint I hate it when a designer says something like “We can put people on the moon, so surely building this is possible!”, while I am sure designers hate it when developers say “Not possible due to CMS/Browser/Database/Other restrictions”..
Can’t we all just be friends?
23
Very interesting discussion here! I don’t have a lot of experience with web-based systems as I’m mainly working on application interfaces but the problematic is similar.
There is only one thing to focus on when developing an interactive system: the user of that system (neither you, your boss nor the user’s boss… the user himself). What else? nothing. So, is it better to have a great graphical user interface or just a command line? well, it depends on the user!! Yes, it may be quite hard to understand (especially for designers ;-) I’m kidding) but a command line is sometimes better than a GUI. When designing an interface, you have to make a tradeoff between ease-of-learning and ease-of-use. For instance, a wizard-like interface may be very easy to learn but if you use it several times a day, it quickly becomes a real pain. On the other hand, someone using the same system the whole day and whose preoccupation is efficiency will prefer an interface that can be operated only with the keyboard and maybe a command line may be the best solution. In the case of web-based systems, it is very likely that, in most cases, “ease-of-learning” is preferred. You cannot afford a learning period because otherwise the user will leave your website.
To come back to the subject of the discussion, I think what is really important is what we call User Experience (UX). In other words, this user experience is how the user feels after (and during) using your system. Is it a pain? Game over! or does it put a little smile on his face and a sparkle in his eyes? You won! The best example in achieving a great UX in the moment is Apple (of course!). With Apple, the good UX begins even before you use their products: the packaging is already a pleasure! ;-)
For user interfaces, there is three equally important components needed for achieving a great UX. First you need a well designed (not in terms of aesthetics but of functionality) interface respecting usability principles and, of course, the user’s needs. Then you need a efficient implementation of it (e.g., you can have the best UI in the world but if it takes hours after each click, the UX is crappy). Finally, you need a visually appealing UI: the emotional part of the user is very important for his UX (don’t forget the second “S” of the KISS principle).
I could talk about that subject for hours (well, it’s my job ;-)) but I’m afraid to become boring. I hope I brought some elements to the discussion and don’t forget: always do what is good for the users!! ;-)
24
This is a difficult question.
I started out as a database programmer and loved the engineering, the problem solving and the sheer ‘beating’ of the poor development environment.
I used to think of this as being ‘creative’ - but on reflection any tuning and optimisations I discovered to make programs faster or more efficient were probably documented somewhere. In effect you could have sat anyone down and, with enough time, taught them how to do it.
I completely accept that some programmers are more talented than others - in the ability to recall information, research and problem solve - and how fast they are at doing it.
However, when it comes to design, after learning the basics, I think that it’s mostly inherent creative/design ability that shines through.
Maybe I’m just saying that you’re trained an engineer and born an artist?
And both should be valued…
25
To be honest, I stopped reading all the comments as soon as I encountered too many people that value design more than functionality.
I am a ‘programmer’ myself and I care a lot about design, about how things look like, about how I have to interface with things (applications, tools, ...), but I feel that many (really many) of my fellow programmers don’t care about design at all - or think that what they produce is design - yuck!
In any case, in the end it is the user that makes the final decision - not the programmer or the designer. And in my experience, most of the users can live with the fact that an interface or a design is not 100% perfect, but they can’t live with a first class interface and top notch design, when the application does do what it is supposed to do!
Same goes for content vs. design: most people value content over design. They don’t care about the presentation when the author has nothing to tell. And they accept dull looking content when the content itself is really interesting.
That’s the way it is and we (as graphic designers and code developers) have to live with that.
So I have the impression that quite a lot of graphic designers overestimate their importance ... But, as I said earlier, personally I really appreciate the qualities of good graphic designers. I’m often amased by their stunning products and enjoy discovering new design, new state-of-the-art websites, etc.
26
Should have read: when the application does NOT do what it is supposed to do.
27
Thanks everyone. We have a great discussion going here.
@John Athayde, I completely follow you, desgin will make it more marketable.
@Jeff Sargent, that’s how I think about it too, respect towards another.
@ Rafal, “But developing the actual works of the system, take up more time, more analysis, more planning, more testing, etc, that’s why it’s more important and the developer should get paid more over the designer.” Of course the total charges will be much higher (in most cases) for the developer, it just takes much more production time. But it doesn’t mean it is more important then the design. I wasn’t really talking about the ‘amount’ of work. Money-wise I only meant the hourly rate. Also I don’t think the amount of work got anything to do with the importance between the design and engineering part.
@JD, the iPod is a really perfect example indeed.
@pijon, problem is indeed that a lot of designers consider them designers and in fact they are not.
@AkaXakA, “The design is always the most important” I don’t think it is the most important part, maybe in some cases it could be but I think in most cases both are equally valuable. I’m certainly not claiming that design is the most important factor, it’s just essential, at least in most cases.
@Pat, “always do what is good for the users!” I totally agree.
These days the technical impact is very high for a designer, there are much things that needs to be considered. Starting from coding XHTML to understanding the specifications for print (bleed, CMYK, color management etc.). We’re not ‘just’ designers anymore like pure artists. But of course that’s not a bad thing, because of the technological evolution it gives us a better understanding of what programmers have to deal with.
28
In my experience, the reason the designers are considered not as important to the project as the programmers had to do with the blame factor. I’ve worked on several projects where the last people to touch the project are the ones blamed for it going over budget/schedule. This was in spite of the fact that the designers took twice as long to design the interface as projected and, thus, the programmers were unfairly targeted. Being the source of blame in the punishment phase does tend to warp a programmer’s opinion of themselves over the designer. I was one of those programmers. :)
However, now I’m working at a company where I do the job of designer and programmer. I’ve come to realize that the designers we had at my previous employment knew nothing of interface design as I find myself creating similar functions in a different format that is more like what current web users are familiar. Thus, the interface is more intuitive than the ones developed by my predecessors.
So I’ve learned that the relative importance of a designer really depends on how experienced the designer is and not on how much they’re paid versus myself.
29
I feel that the “I can do that better myself” mentality has really made the non-designer view the professional as more of a mouse jockey than anything else. These days its seems that anyone can get a copy of Photoshop and call themselves a designer.
30
There are actually 3 things going on here, not 2.
Information Architecture (designing the system)
Design (making the system look good)
Programming (making the system work)
31
I think the debate is a little subjective. It really depends on the client, project and intended audience. Larger clients with a broader customer base and more competitors will value design much higher than a small business in a small market with relatively few customers. At an enterprise level, design and programming will go hand in hand. For small time businesses, the programming side will usually take precedence over design...in my experience.
I think the reason why so many web designers get the shaft money-wise is that the web design market is simply over saturated right now. Especially with a lot of “newbies” who do not understand properly how to quote a project in terms of price. They simply underbid themselves and lower the market value for everyone else who offers those services. Back in 1999, people were paying hundreds of thousands of dollars for a website. Now you can google a kid who will work for $5 an hour.
I think the best thing for anyone who has been designing for years now is to start learning to program (not just scripting languages like PHP or JavaScript). There are a lot of programmers and a ton of designers, but not too many who can do both well.
32
Basically, I think both basic categories of ‘designer’ and ‘programmer’ should be paid the same base level and then more depending on the level of skill or expertise needed to perform the task.
But I think there should be some clarification of or distinction between ‘application designer’, ‘graphic designer’, ‘interface designer’ etc. On a informational website that doesn’t really perform any business logic, a ‘graphic designer’ is the main need. On a web application (like a webmail client), there isn’t as much need for graphical elements, but there is a huge need for good application and interface design.
Of course, most sites fall somewhere inbetween…
33
<!--
I am technical by nature, and so programming comes naturally to me… and because of this I place allot of value in design ... and think that design is worth more. Design is very subjective, and too many people _think_ they know how to design. I consider UI a part of design, and that is probably the *most* important things in any website.
Who get’s paid more, all depends ...
As mentioned, it depends on the job. For a simple (X)HTML website, I believe a designer should be paid more… For a complex custom CMS, a programmer should be paid more.
But if we all start on the same level, then time should dictate the spread of work!
-->
34
Web design is a complicated art form, one that requires a balance of creativity and technical knowledge - it’s impossible to try and seperate the two.
35
One way to value the role is to assess the held responsibility and consequences of a job done incorrectly. If a project manager doesn’t do his/her job correctly, an entire market opportunity may be missed. So it’s probably appropriate that he’s paid the most. If a software engineer doesn’t do his/her job correctly, there can also be catastrophic consequences—a system can become prohibitively expensive to maintain, important data can be lost, business logic isn’t reflected in the operating of the system, security can be compromised. The consequences of poor design, however, in the general case, are most likely not perceived as costly.
Again in the general case, it’s probably to be expected that the holder of a five-year Computer Science degree is going to earn more than the holder of a three-year Design degree.
But the general case is just that - general. Probably most people likely reading Veele’s blog have an appreciation for the importance of design, and would likely perceive the consequences of poor design to be higher.
Apple Computer would probably be a good example to look at. There’s probably no company around that values design as much as Apple. While probably few people in the company are paid as highly as Jonathan Ives, probably the average engineer salary is higher than the average designer salary there.
Just as a side note, I’ve been running a software development company since 1997, and for my money, the most valuable people are those that have an understanding and appreciation for both software development and design. It’s those people that most often are capable of designing (or guiding the design of) a user interface that meets the real needs and objectives of the user (i.e. is highly usable), while—at the same time—reflects consideration for the technical, financial and management constraints associated with the projects. It’s very very rare to find such people, and more often than not, these people don’t come from pure technical or design backgrounds, but often from areas such as architecture or literature.
36
Unfortunately, design is regarded as subjective whereas programming is undoubtedly empirical - it works or it doesn’t. In reality, design is all-embracing and thus the key to everything that follows. The question of remuneration is quite different and comes down to market forces.
37
I think that whenever people talk about design when it applies to the web they thend to confuse it with “graphic design”. Yet the web is not print and vice versa. To me, true web design is the synergy created by great coding, great visual design, great interface design, backend implementation, programming etc…
It’s becoming increasingly harder for just one person to handle it all and do it all well. I consider myself more of a coder than a designer so whenever I’m stuck for inspiration I bring in a freelance graphic designer. They often come up with things you would never have thought of because you’re allready in a “web” state of mind. It’s often quite challenging to implement other people’s visual ideas, especially if you yourself believe in their vision. On a down note though, clients still only care about the surface and are still begging for “moving flash intro’s” as if that’s going to make their site a good one. I have found that the less I mention web standards, accessiblity, semantic markup, validation etc… when dealing with prospective clients the better.At times it seems to scare them off rather then convince them you’re trying to work to a standard ;-)
38
Design is a big word; a developer or a ‘programer’ if you like to call them names, takes design decisions all the time. What’s called design in this discussion, is mostly about artwork.
Steve Jobs put it this way when a journalist asked him if the ‘design’ of the Imac was the main reason if its’ success:
“When you are talking design, you are talking about the semi-transparent plastic and the shiny colors. With the introduction of the Imac, I demanded a silent computer; it doesn’t have a fan, so it’s less noisy then any pc out there: that’s what I call a design decision.”
In its’ true sense, design is the alpha and the omega in whatever creative process. Both graphical artists and developers take equally important design decisions all the time, mostly without even realising it.
39
A better way to approach this discussion is to first agree on a definition on both “programmer” and “designer”.
After we’ve agreed on these definitions, everybody can make comments, beause now we all have an own idea in mind of what these both professions are.
To explain why this is needed I refer to the fact that most of the time a programmer is a compilation of professions. In small companies a “programmer” would be somebody who : gathers the requirements, analyses, design (the coding) and eventually actually writes some code and last but not least tests it.
As I am not a “designer” I wouldn’t dare to define that class, but I’m sure that some of you can…
40
with me (here in Switzerland), it’s ALWAYS been a glass ceiling between me the web monkey (HTML, Javascript, CSS) and the programmers that do java, database or other server-side stuff.
It used to get to me, but now i just realize it’s a fact, tho not one i really like. Makes me feel like a second-class citizen, altho, in the end, i’m the one who has to make sure everything comes out just like as the client wanted it.
41
My father was a Colonel in the Air Force, and during his speeches would always ask the question: Who is more important, the pilot or the mechanic; the navigator or the air traffic controller?
His point of course, was to make sure people knew that everything was a team effort. That’s how I view programmers and designers. It takes both-and, otherwise there is not a well-polished final product.
To me, it’s about the end-user experience. If the user does not find the website both intuitive and funcitonal, then all involved in the process have failed collectively. So, it makes sense that if all both are equally important, there should be comparable pay, based on what each brings to the table.
42
I strongly disagree with you on this one. Designers are pretty much always the best paid ones because they’re doing the creative work. In design- and advertising bureaus, the lead designers/art directors are without exception the ones with the best salary and status.
43
I have to reply to Gjermunds post.. I just couldn’t let this comment slide: “..they’re (designers) doing the creative work” - excuse me, but are you saying that coders aren’t creative? If so, you should be slapped silly ;) Coding is a very creative artform my friend..
44
Programming as such is not artistically creative. Design needn’t be, either. It all depends on the context within which these words are used. To use an analogy, architecture can be an intensely creative activity, and a creative engineer a valuable partner to the architect. I know from experience that working with creative engineers improves the creative potential of the architect. But engineering, like programming, is only a creative activity in the context of architecture.
Of course an engineer can himself/herself introduce the creative architectural element to an engineering project where a separate architect is not employed, just as a programmer can creatively produce the design as well as the programming work required. But this doesn’t get away from the fundamental nature of engineering or programming as different from architecture or design.
As I suggested above, design in a web context is not absolute, whereas coding and programming tend to be more so. If the colour scheme of a web page isn’t 100% perfect or if the proportions aren’t as elegant as they might be, or the navigation not entirely intuitive, the website can still be a goer, but if the coding doesn’t work it’s a non-starter. Also I think design skills are more an instinctive thing, with less dependence on the technical knowledge that is essential to the programmer - and employing technical knowledge tends to cost money in all walks of life.
Since the web is essentially technical - much more so than architecture - programming tends to be the dominant skill, and I don’t see this changing in the near future.
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Programmers get it going, and designers gift wrap it.
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Ultimately, this discussion reminds me of the joke about the argument that body organs once had, on the subject of who’s the most important part of the body.
The lungs said “I provide air, without me, you’d be DEAD!”
The liver said “I cleanse the blood, without me, you’d be DEAD!”
And so on, through all the vital organs.
Until the bumhole chipped up “Actually, I’m the most important part of the body”. All the other organs laughed.
So the bumhole closed up for a few days, after which the constipation became so unbearable, the other organs hastily proclaimed the bumhole the most important part of the body!
And thus it is with this discussion. In our jobs, be it designing the UI, or creating back-ends, we should all be treated as equals. And yet some are treated more equal than others.
(my apologies to Veerle for the nasty joke :-) )
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As a developer AND designer i should agree on the statement that “they are of equal value”. However, I beleive they are not.
Looks are imprtant, but IMO always there to help functionaliy, never to dicate it. Far too often I encounter websites that are completely useless, because designers made them pretty. I beleive a website that looks horrible, but is usefull (Google looks awfull) is not considered a bad site, while a good looking site, that is inaccessible is considered bad.
But, when design is used to help accessibility, (not design vs functionality, but form-follows-function) it will help a lot. This kind of design is so difficult that only real specialists seem to be let to do so. Same goes for developers. Only those who manage to develop a backend that will allow designers to make good (not the same as pretty) designs, can be conisdered good developers.
So, all in all, i think designers, who ‘make it pretty’ are greatly overrated, while those developers and designers that are able to work together and put usability/accessability above all, are greatly underrated.
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Yes - have to agree with this last posting by Ber, although I am not a programmer, myself, but am working on learning more programming languages because I think they are going to become inseparable in the future to the design.
But it is so true, if it looks good, but it doesn’t function, it’s worthless… I’ve designed some things like that, myself, I don’t mind admitting it; and in fact, only to realize later that it wasn’t so important how it looked, after all. I guess when you realize it that is a step in the right direction, and I think that if it is designed well, in terms of functionality, it will actually look good, too, because maybe it just feels and works right to/for the end-user. I think that it boils down to how the mind works, vs. what people think they want to “see,” which sometimes really isn’t worth seeing.
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But again, if someone is a good designer and a creative artist, there is room for that definitely in the world of web design. I think it is still an evolving field, without clear boundaries between what people are in terms of designers vs. programmers. I do think that sometimes (or often) good artists have clever ideas that a programmer might not, and have an eye for detail or how to represent something in a novel way.
It is hard to be both, and (obviously perhaps) I think it is within the individual and their talents as to whether they are naturally inclined to be one or the other.
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The role differences between design and development positions of a software development project are artificial. They exist only to ease project management and portioning of work. Practical design is extremely technical in nature just as programming is extremely creative in nature. Designers with little technical skills or programmers with little creativity are nothing more than specialized technicians that can only be trusted with blue printed tasks. Those blueprints are created by designers and developers who bridge the gap.
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Veerle, being both a designer as well as a programmer myself, I think I can safely say that they are just equally important. :)
Design is more than aesthetics, it’s user interface, thus usability and accessibility. Design is all-encompassing, it defines whether something is userfriendly or troublesome, it dictates whether we enjoy working with something from a visual point of view, or feel like we are “forced to use it”.
The engineering side, however, is also important. A great design breaks down horribly if the engine isn’t up to par. Just like how the most beautiful car in the world is useless if the engine doesn’t work.
The only real difference in ‘value’ that I could come up with is that design quality is more prone to people’s opinion than engineering is. People may find a blue color scheme for a site much less pretty than a brown one, but on the whole, people don’t care nearly as much about the engine behind the site (to stick to websites as an example). “If it works, it works, right?”
Sure, there’s a difference between
working and working well, but to many people that difference is negligable compared to the difference that a personally preferred design makes over a design that the user doesn’t really like.
So what I’m saying is that design is more easily subject to people’s preferences than engineering is. As far as value or importance goes, though, they are equal and depend on each other just as much.
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A bit late to this discussion, and I’m really just going to say “me too” to Faruk’s comment. It’s important to differentiate between “design”, which can mean a lot of things and can be applied to programming as well as to graphic design, and “visual design” which is probably what we are talking about here.
And I’ve seen the other side of this too: designers considered more valuable (as in how much they get paid and how much influence they have on a project) than programmers, even though said designers do not “get” the web and the programmers do. Needless to say, the end results are very rarely good (or usable) when that happens.
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Designers and Programmers have a symbiotic relationship. Designers have nothing to design for without programmers and programmers’ programs will go unused without an interface.
I myself am more a designer than programmer but I belive programming is much more difficult than designing so I would charge more for programming. On the otherhand I talked to a friend (a programmer) and he thinks the opposite (he’d charge more for designing.)
So I guess they are of equal value.