Jun 11
Apple + Mobistar = FAIL!
2008 at 03.17 pm posted by Veerle Pieters
The day after the announcement of the Apple iPhone 3G I was really excited to see Belgium among the 22 countries who would have the device available at July 11th. Now a few days later it seems that the flags of Belgium have been moved on the Apple.be site to “soon available”. I understand that things here aren’t exactly the same as in most other countries because it is illegal here to sell contract/phone bundling in other words sim locked phones.
Mobistar + Apple is wrong
I understand that Apple looks for a partner that has the biggest impact in the whole of Europe so that's why they opted for Orange, the parent company of Mobistar. To me Mobistar likes to brag that they are the biggest telecom chain in Belgium and have the best coverage. The choice for Mobistar is wrong because it is very clear that Mobistar isn't a provider that can supply 3G coverage or is even ready to handle sales. In fact it gets worse because their network for 3G will only be ready at the end of the year, and even then it will only cover 80% of the country. Now they still use EDGE. If all this isn't clear evidence that Mobistar isn't the right partner for this phone I don't know it. It also make me seriously doubt if they will be able to make everything work on the iPhone like visual voice messaging etc. It's obvious that somebody played cry baby at Apple's door to hold off the launch. If this phone would become available at July 11th most sales would be lost to Proximus. Read on why...
Why Proximus would make more sense
Proximus isn't new to this 3G thing in fact they skipped EDGE all together if I am not mistaken. That's my current ISP, they already have a 3G network in place that covers 80% of the country. They are the market leader and they partner together with Vodafone which isn't a small player worldwide as well. In fact I doubt if the Orange group is even bigger. Look, I'm not married to Proximus and they have their flaws as well, but they are best equipped to serve the needs of an iPhone 3G user. On the other hand the current dataplans are too expensive so some change is needed in that area as well. Personally I believe that this phone will change the way dataplans are set up now. This phone isn't served with the current limits that are in place. If I were Proximus, I would come out with something interesting at the right price point (30 à 40 Euro), have no limits - and what follows would be a 3G market that kick starts.
Apple open your eyes!
Even Apple isn't innocent in all this because the right thing to do would be making this damn phone available to anybody to do whatever they want with it. The law here is a good thing since it gives the customer the option to join whatever network they want, the way it should be imho. So Apple, if you want to wait and lose sales it's up to you but the smarter move would be making this available at July 11th so that Proximus customers can start enjoying this phone because they *are* ready. In Belgium there are already more than 10.000 illegal phones on the network so that should give you an idea on what volume could be sold here. Our patience has been tested enough! This isn't the way to reward your loyal customers, Apple! I want to do things official and this is what I get in return! We live in a free country so I want to buy this phone where I want. Don't force me to wait on a partner that isn't capable! I know that people from Cupertino read this, so get the message to Steve :)
I also understand it is just a device, but it's the first phone I am looking forward to actually using. So Apple fix this FAIL!
62served
1
I’ll be sure to reconsider ever imgrating to Belgium based on this info!
2
Well said Veerle!
3
Hi Veerle,
I agree surely it would be better for Apple to pick a network that already has 3G coverage in order to maintain the expectations of Apple customers.
The problem we had with the first generation iPhone here in the UK was that O2 (the network provider) had to build an edge network just so iPhone users could surf the Internet.
Why take a step backwards?
Don’t get me wrong, Apple have produced an amazing piece of technology - it’s just they’re limiting its total impact upon the world.
Great post as always.
4
Great to read that I’m not the only thinking Apple should’ve gone for Proximus (and yes, I’m a Proximusser) as they’ve been promoting their 3G network quite a lot during the past few months.
On the other hand we don’t know how much money was involved (cfr. the rights to airing the national league which went out for a truckload of money to Belgacom) ... maybe that one played a big part in the deal too?
5
Indeed. I didn’t ‘import’ a first generation iphone because i wanted to wait until they were available over here in belgium and get the full warranty and support.
Should i wait or should i just make a trip across the border to .nl or .fr or .de ... on july 11th ?
I think thats what most of the 10.000 iphone users will do to get their iphone 3G. Thats a lot of lost sales-opportunity.
6
Completely true! Well said!
7
Wise words, I can only confirm them.
BTW: Proximus officially doesn’t have EDGE. I have a 3G data plan with them, and because I’m using a 2.5G iPhone, it falls back to EDGE. But it’s dog slow. You can compare it with a dial-up connection. I pay €15/month for only 50Mb of data transfer, so that has to change :-)
8
Normally, in Belgium, iPhones will be sell unclocked.
Source
9
You should consider yourself lucky that your country has 80% coverage. I can’t drive more than 100 miles in any direction and expect to still have coverage here in the US. If I stay in the city, sure. When I drive into rural areas… nothing. Unless of course I want to pay roaming charges.
Of course, the US is considerably larger. But, the country itself has nowhere near 80% coverage.
10
I wonder… Did they put Canada (English)/Canada (French) and Switzerland (French)/Switzerland (German) up there to compensate? They now have 22 “countries” where it will be available on July 11 allright…
And I totally agree with you, Veerle. This is simply pathetic. Proximus would have been the better, smarter choice :).
11
Veerle, I’m with you on this one, even though I’m from Romania (same issue with the iPhone and Orange here as well).
However, there are a few things you and every other angry Apple fan (yours truly included) have to understand:
First, this contract was more than likely auctioned. Mobistar won. Fair and square (hope so). Second, Apple can’t sell you an iPhone for $200!!! What are you thinking?! It’s nothing more and nothing less than the excellent marketing skills they have developed over the years. The price is the effect of the subsidies granted by the telcos.
It’s not Apple’s goal to tie you to the evil telco because they get a higher ARPU via the iPhone’s services than they get from the telcos or their “great” plans.
They probably won’t be sold without a plan simply because the extra money won’t cover the true cost of the device. It would have to be like $800, which would be bad for Apple, because they’re trying to make their products “affordable”, and a $800 price tag would defeat the purpose of that marketing goal now, wouldn’t it ? :)
12
Apple + Movistar = ALSO FAIL.
Here’s hoping Apple sees the light and releases an unlocked iPhone in the near future.
13
Hi Veerle. On most things you said here I agree. Proximus is the better choice for Apple! Their network coverage and quality is much better then the other telecom providers in Belgium, but you pay more for it. But there is also another story to tell…
I worked a few years as a consultant in Belgium. About a year ago we heard the rumor that Proximus was negotiating with Apple to sell the iPhone in Belgium, but it seems that all the contacts they had didn’t pay off. Proximus lost the deal to Mobistar. For Apple it makes more sense to go for Mobistar then for Proximus. Mobistar belongs to the Orange group, which is an international group. Proximus only belongs to Belgacom, which is a Belgium company. A year and a half ago Vodafone sold all their shares back to Belgacom. This means that Proximus is now on it’s own.
The last year the quality that Proximus delivers is going down. Their customer service isn’t giving the quality that is should, they have more and more network problems, ... but I agree, it’s still better then Mobistar.
Mobistar will be the Partner of Apple in Belgium. The iPhone can normally not be sold with a sim-lock here. They must allow that also other users of other providers can use the phone. I have the feeling that it will be the same as in France: the sell the iPhone locked, but also another unlocked version at a higher price.
Anyway, I can’t wait to have my hands on it :-).
14
Well said!
In my despair, I’ve visited the mobistar website and tried typing in http://www.mobistar.be/iphone and it redirects me to http://iphone3g.mobistar.be/. At least they seem to be doing _something_ over there. Wonder what it is…
15
It’s the same here in Germany. They just picked the wrong provider. I guess my favourite one didn’t offer enough to them -.-
16
The best choice would have been to sell the iPhone without contract and let the operators sell them in packs with contracts for a considerable lower price. That way, Apple could have a customer price and a special price for operators. Since Apple no longer has a share in the contract revenue, this would not hurt Apple. This would let the market come into play, like it should in a free market. Something the Belgian law tries to enforce by banning sim-locks.
17
Veerle,
I do not completely agree with you.
We have a number 2,5G iPhone’s. Most of them on Mobistar, having EDGE coverage everywhere, great speed for reading email, sending pictures, workable if you need to consult a (descent) webpage and affordable (24euro/month for 2Gbytes, which is almost equal to “unlimited” for reasonable use on a mobile device, and 0,08euro/Mb extra).
We have 1 on Proximus, incredibly slow, because they don’t have EDGE only GPRS and mega expensive (12,5euro/month for 50Mb, every connection has a minimum of 1Mb, afterwards 0,75euro/Mb… 100Mb would cost 87,5euro… or you could pay them 43euro/month with a maximum of 5Gb).
Of course now comes the iPhone 3G. So we would use UMTS of course. But consider using it on the Proximus network… It would cost you a fortune, because at these high speeds and having now the possibility to read Word/Excel/Powerpoint/Pages/Numbers, you would certainly use more MB’s per month.
Proximus claims access to HSDPA in 300 cities (80% of the population, not 80% of the country), Mobistar says it has 280 points HSDPA (7,2Mbps). So no real big difference. Except as Proximus user, if you don’t have 3G coverage, you fall back to GPRS (+-64Kbps).
I think both operators are more or less ready.
Anyway, as you state: Legally in Belgium also Proximus (and Base) users will be able to use an iPhone. Do not fear. And euh… this morning Proximus claimed to have already 18.000 2,5G iPhones on their network !
However I do agree that Mobistar (or whoever delivering iPhones in Belgium) should be ready by July 11th. If they don’t, we should react. Any idea would be welcome. Being ready shouldn’t be so difficult. Visual voice mail hasn’t been difficult for any of the providers up to now.
18
I’m not sure what statistic apple is trying to pursue but they’ve done this in the U.S. as well. They’ve chosen an EDGE network (as far as I know) who not only has a ridiculous price range for plans but also is notorious for dropped calls and bad service. I can’t even see this strategy producing more promised sales than it would from the shear hype of those unable to purchase. I really can’t imagine a phone company signing a contract with so much more 0’s that apple would so easily fall on their knees and let them run the show!
19
It’s the same here in Germany, you have to buy and activate the phone directly at the T-Mobile store, even the bigger Apple resellers don’t sell it so we’re forced to make a contract with T-Mobile which in my opinion is the “dieing” ISP in Germany.
I hope that in the near future (1 year) we will be able to choose which ISP gets our money.
20
in South Dakota (USA!) we dont’ have coverage with the network here and cant’ use the iphone without unlocking it. in apple’s own country!
21
Veerle, you’ll see if you run an iPhone on EDGE while they are completing their 3G coverage, that it is just fine. Very acceptable speeds for email and webbrowsing which is about all you will do on the phone. You’ll so get used to the internet in your pocket, that you don’t want to miss it, no matter who the provider is. I had a contract with Vodafone in germany and was also not happy to have to move to t-mobile—but am very pleased now.
22
Apple + TeliaSonera = FAIL also.
23
Oh boy ... I follow digg a lot and see a lot of iphone news passing by.
When the iphone came out I was frustrated that it wouldn’t be sould in Belgium.
Now that the iphone is coming to Belgium I am frustrated because it won’t be on July 11th.
Should I be frustrated about the provider now? Or will I be frustrated once I have the phone?
I am frustrated because I honestly don’t know.
Have a lot of anger management to do here but I am working on it lol.
24
Hey veerle, you are still better off. Consider my plight. There isn’t any provider for 3G yet in India, and probably won’t be for quite some time. And Apple hasn’t even released iphone here yet.
Even if I make the iphone work here, it probably would have very limited functionality. But, I guess, I am still ready to take all the pains to get the new (cheaper) iphone! :)
25
To get you on your nervs lol ...
Wonderfull iphone wallpapers!
26
At least, in Switzerland, we will have the choice between two providers: Swisscom and Orange.
More than 45’000 iPhone are already in use in Switzerland… but 3G model will be a great success with two providers.
27
I was thinking exactly the same, Veerle… why Mobistar?!
Just before rumours of the iPhone + Mobistar alliance, I got a call from Proximus to extent my subscription for another 15 months and I agreed because I never thought that Proximus would be passed. Damn…
Now, I can’t imagine that Proximus (and Base for what it’s worth ;-) ) will fail to respond to this bundled deal… I expect some lawsuits very soon.
And talking about the price! If this dramatic price drop of the new iPhone is due to AT&T;’s subsidy, this might not be the case over here… so I’m trying not to be that enthusiastic about that too.
28
Mobistar heeft juist hun iPhone 3G webportal geopend :)
29
In Belgium you pay €44/month for 12Gb of data transfer for ordinary broadband. The internet/communication sector in Belgium is just a bunch of thiefs. Whichever provider Apple chooses, it will always be way too expensive.
30
Internal message at Mobistar:
De iphone zal worden gelanceerd op 17 juli samen met de release in frankrijk. Dit doordat ze niet willen dat belgie eerder loopt met een simlockvrije iphone doordat frankrijk reeds een delay kent. normaal zullen alle mobistar werknemers in de loop van deze week a volgende week een training starten met als doel de iphone te kennen. deze zou tevens simlock vrij zijn maar zullen enkel verkocht worden door mobistar.
31
I couldn’t agree more Veerle! I really WANT that iPhone ASAP! :-)
32
“De nieuwe iPhone komt naar België
exclusief met Mobistar.”
Exclusive to Mobistar. I wonder how. I have base because of the 200mb edge for only 10 euros / month. 40 euros for 7,5 hours of calling time and 5 euro for 200 sms messages. Thats a total of 55 euros a month for my iphone 2.5G. I doubt proximus or mobistar can give me a better deal. And I never had any problems with covorage yet. Edge is working everywhere i’ve been to in belgium.
33
Don’t know how to put this really, so here it goes: *bluntly*
- It’s closed, corporate, proprietory and lock down all the way. In other words: It’s Apple in a nutshell.
With a free phone (OpenMoko) you’re free to choose any way you want to.
“You get what you deserve” might be a litle to harsh, but this is obviously the way Apple do things. They patent things to death (and don’t respect other’s patents), kill all creativity on personal level (by locking down their devices) and also on business level (by using single vendor types contracts).
34
I use 3G (3.5G actually) on Mobistar every day, and have been for a while, so the network is there, just expanding to get to 80% I suppose.
Also, the whole “grouped sale” law may change. There are lots of rumours of changes allowing operators to lock phones to mobile plans being allowed in Belgium.
That may explain the Mobistar delay. As far as I know the whole point of disallowing locks was to prevent people signing up to deals they couldn’t keep and getting into debt which is completely defeated by all these plans that lock you in for 2 years in exchange for extra call minutes and whatnot anyway.
35
this is definitely one of the big missed point in Steve Jobs conference last monday when talking about the customers complaints : I would have said “point 1, the bundle selling offer”
36
Nice post, congratulations! I completely agree with you, Apple should really open their eyes soon!
37
Thanks for the info Td! I was pretty angry because I thought Mobistar had said the summer “doesn’t seem very opportune either”, but it seems I was wrong. I can live with a little delay like that :)
38
I will NEVER have a plan or contract for a cell phone. NEVER! I will ONLY buy an iPhone if i can have it UNLOCKED. Period! Cell phones are not that important that you have to tie your soul to some carrier for a few years. JUST SAY NO TO CONTRACTS!
39
10.000 illegal phones? A customer can do whatever he wants with the products he buys, therefor any unlocked iPhone is NOT illegal in Belgium.
40
Bart said:
Unlocked or not it doesn’t matter. Apple doesn’t sell them here and hasn’t given permission to anybody to import + most of them aren’t even declared so that makes this illegal + Apple doesn’t allow unlocking. They turn a blind eye. It will become legal when this phone is out here officially.
41
Pff this Apple hype sucks.
“I’ll be sure to reconsider ever imgrating to Belgium based on this info!”
Are you stupid?
42
Geert, not if you buy them in any EU country, as there is <nl>Vrij verkeer van goederen</nl> in the EU. And the Belgian laws allow you to do about anything with any physical good you bought, especially run any software you want on it.
43
I’d heard that there would be a 2 month exclusivity deal with Mobistar that would then be opened up to BASE and Proximus, but I’ll be damned if I can remember where I read it.
Does anyone else have any information on that?
@apmeyer if we go 100 miles in any direction in Belgium we’re in another country!
44
Apple does not support unlocking… it will most probably make you loose any guarantee. But it’s not illegal.
There’s nothing illegal about fiddling around with the toys you buy, as said… it’s a guarantee thing.
And because of the European laws about free transport of goods within Europe, it’s also not illegal to import the iPhone from Germany (for example).
45
@Geert: Belgian law doesn’t say anything about importing iPhones, or in general, importing electronics for personal use. Of course there is a limit on the number of items you can import. What you do with your electronics is your own business and Apple has no legal right to tell you whether you can hack it or not.
46
My thoughts exactly, just release the Iphone without any carrier lock-in already. When I see the iPhone is being released in Kuwait and India, it makes me feel like living in a third world country :)
47
From a user base perspective, it would make more sense for Proximus to distribute the iPhone in Belgium: they simply have the largest number of business and professional customers, which is the target audience for the (expensive) iPhone.
For Mobistar this represents a nice opportunity to attack this strong business franchise of Proximus!
I hope that in the end, new and more attractive data tariff plans will be introduced.
48
Well, I don’t have that much experience with Mobistar but this does not sound good.
I’m happy that here in the Netherlands we get to go with T-mobile, which is my current provider as well. I just hope that the data&voice;plans aren’t going to be that expensive.
49
Belgium is way too small for Apple to care about. This was decided at group level (Vodafone/Orange). I’m sure Mobistar and Proximus/Belgacom where never even in the loop during these talks.
From what I’ve heard (I work for Proximus, but at the bottom of the ladder, so I never hear the interesting shit) even Mobistar wasn’t informed beforehand. They were quite upset about this, because they couldn’t prepare the communication about it.
Anyway, I wouldn’t worry too much. It might be exclusively sold in Mobistar shops, but they will have to sell a simlockfree version too, according to the law. I don’t believe the law about this will change anytime soon, our government has other priorities :-)
Don’t worry about rates either. Proximus and Mobistar have a tendency to have very similar rates (if you combine the right promo’s).
The real question will be, will all functions work on Proximus networks (visual voice mail, push email?). I even wonder if they will work
50
This morning I saw this website: http://iphone3g.mobistar.be.
You can subscribe to the latest information about the iPhone and the launch date, prices, etc…
51
Veerle, you are totally right!
Proximus was the best partner for Apple. It has the best service and the most business-users. Proximus stands for quality, while Base stands for cheap prices and Mobistar stands for… well, euhm… nothing!
I was very surprised at the time that Apple made a deal with Mobistar.
Postponing the launch is what Ellen Feis (from the Mac-commercial some years ago) would call ‘a bummer’. And even a big one!
52
The same problem seems to be the case in Poland. Primary iPhone supplyer will be Orange, although luckily we also have a second provider Era, so that at least gives us some possibilities. I have the same worries about the coverage.
53
Veerle,
Vodaphone Italy has announced their price for the new iPhone 3G in Italy (if sold without a carrier plan): 499 EUR for the 8GB version and 569 EUR for the 16GB version.
More at http://www.rackham.be/blog/?p=358 (article is in Dutch).
54
Hear, hear!
55
I decide myself what SIM-card I’ll put in my iPhone. Apple shouldn’t decide for us which carrier to use.
The 30 000 Belgians with an unlocked iPhone did the right thing.
56
You guys are really fortunate to be able to get your hands on the new iphone, whereas in asia, they do not have a distributor for the phone yet.
57
Let’s wait wait and wait some more and wait again…
In Belgium these things always take forever.
My guess the iPhone will far to expensive and the rate plans in Belgium will be like always far to pricy in comparison with rest of europe.
I was waiting for the iPhone in Belgium to buy it here, not some unlocked version from abroad.
To be honest I guess the unlockers” were wright from the start.
Apple together with mobile operator can not sell the iPhone + rate plan cheaper.
The sum up:
I am disappointed in Apple, the Belgian mobile operators + the Belgian government (there not helping consumers at all).
br,
Fidel
58
Totally agree with you Veerle
59
I care about the innovation Apple brings on both technical and UI level.
I care about 3G coverage but early adopters should be flexible…
There will be an Andriod phone out soon…
The criticism on Apple and their policy remind me of the criticism on MS in the Open Source community.
Without MS no pc’s as we know them… Without Apple no mobiles as we will know them…
Embrace the features and await the future!
60
I think the same thing!
If the 3G Iphone will be sold unlocked in Belgium for over 300€ I would consider of importing it from another country…
61
reminds me all too much of the proposed data plans etc on offer for the iPhone in Australia. At least we have the network, just we only have a moderate amount of competition.
62
Yea.. sure.. because of bad coverage by one stupid hick provider, Kai Chan Vong does not want to migrate to Belgium. Well, I guess there are enough Chinese restaurants in Belgium anyhow :)