Nov 11
AFUP 05 - PHP stronger than ever
2005 at 12.46 pm posted by Veerle
Hi there, Kenneth here, Veerle’s regular PHP developer (she even called me a php guru once, though that’s overstated). I just came back from AFUP‘s Forum PHP ‘05, the fourth edition of a yearly gathering of advanced PHP programmers in Paris. And boy was it interesting. Two days simply packed with great advice, demos and an insight in the future of PHP. (see the overview of all sessions here)
The original author of our beloved language, Rasmus Lerdorf was present with three (3 !!!) other PHP Core Developers, all ready to answer any questions we might have and giving presentations about their current projects. Let’s see: Rasmus gave us a short overview of the new and upcoming version 5.1, replacing the already published 5.0. Where 5.0 was all about getting the new features in, the unused onces out and getting the whole thing ready for the future, 5.1 will be about getting speed back to the platform (speed is somewhat lacking in 5.0, compared to 4.4).
PHP is really getting into the enterprise now, and about 15% of the new php developers are switchers from ASP/.NET, which is a great feeling for those who have seen the light years ago but had to defend their decision ever since. PHP *is* ready for the enterprise, as long as the developer is: he has to be pragmatic and professional about his code-writing when writing for a bigger app (we always should be, but with an enterprise app, the stakes are higher than on a personal website). Rasmus gave a great presentation again the second day mainly about code hacking and form hacking.
His colleague, Wez Furlong, the “King of PECL”, gave us an insight in his recent works at PDO, a database abstraction engine in PHP5. But, like many, I was waiting for the (somewhat disappointing) presentation about AJAX. AJAX - the melting of Asynchonous requests, Javascript and XML - also called WEB 2.0 - is what’s giving responsiveness to our apps. Any HTML developer knows the burden of having a client ask for a drag-and-drop feature that’s simply too hard to deliver at the moment (I know, I know, there are ways, but not nearly as cross-platform and fast to develop as we’d like, right?). Ajax is here to do just that. Now, earlier, I had been looking at Ruby on Rails, another development language that’s breaking boundaries with AJAX. This is a combination of technology *made for* the development of AJAX-improved websites, but not nearly as feature-rich as PHP is. It’s a relatively new language but, given the broad developer base and side-projects PHP has, will never catch up to PHP (since there’s equally active development on PHP - all the time).
PHP is advancing in AJAX-development as well: the PEAR project (PHP Extension and Application Repository) has a package out (HTML_AJAX, it’s alpha state) but lots more is to be expected real soon.
Another thing to look at is XUL, the GUI development language currently used for the creation of Firefox. A presentation of this language and its applicability was given by a guy from Lemonde (a leading French newspaper - their entire backend is running in Firefox, using XUL instead of ‘regular’ web pages).
Packed with this and soooo much more, I’m returning home, already looking forward to my trip with Veerle and Geert to SXSW 2006 in Austin, Texas. I’ll propose to give Veerle her first PHP development course on the plane :-)
21served
1
One afterthought already: 1 in 4 speakers used a mac powerbook or ibook! Rasmus even lives on a powerbook! That means something for the future of PHP on the mac!
2
Nice week to be in Paris....
3
>Now, earlier, I had been looking at Ruby on Rails, another development language that’s breaking boundaries with AJAX. This is a combination of technology *made for* the development of AJAX-improved websites, but not nearly as feature-rich as PHP is.
Is this a joke or what ?!
PHP doesn’t even compare to Ruby.
PHP has a such a poor, immature syntax with all these namespace issues.
All those functions whose name is “array_"something. This is just pathetic.
PHP5 barely brings a decent[/I] OOP support that Ruby has had from the beginning.
But now try to create a class in PHP5 with a method called list() for instance. Quite a common name for a method, huh ?
WRONG, you can’t, it gives you a syntax error because list() is a reserved word. This is just bad....
Actually, not many languages have been as poorly designed as PHP, and Rasmus Lerdof is no hero to me.
Things are getting better with version 5 but PHP definitely needs a more object-oriented syntax. I don’t know whether it’s even possible though.
As for Ruby on Rails being just “made for AJAX”, well… hum… you should definitely have a closer look !
This so much more than that !
4
You were longing for cross-platform ways to allow clients to have drag and drop ability on their websites....what about Flash integrated with PHP.
5
You can’t really compare a framework (RoR) to a language (PHP) and then say PHP has more features. I think what you wanted to compare is the language Ruby against PHP. In that case keep in mind that Ruby is the older language and is unquestionably cleaner and built from the ground up as object oriented. Now that doesn’t mean you can’t prefer to use PHP and you may very well like it’s syntax over Ruby. I just wanted to point out that making comparisons between a framework and a language is a little odd. And if you decide to say Ruby the language has less features than PHP, at least provide some examples. :-)
6
Interesting… I work in ASP.Net and have no intention of switching. With the new ASP.Net 2.0 now, a large developer base and high extensability I feel like I’ve found the right language (C#) - clean and understandable syntax, much like java…
It is however great that the development is progressing, so best of luck to these people.
Using C# and Flash is also nice - create a webservice and pass xml data between the layers.
7
i love c# and php, both are great and depends on what you need when to use either, and it is always a pleasure to hear about any web development progress.
ciao
8
I think, what Veerle means is that php has a wealth of functions, and Ruby on Rails still seems to lack a few features. Ruby is a superior language compared to PHP for very large projects but PHP is still very user friendly, easy to install and so well known. “Ruby On Rails” is a framework made in ruby which makes web development easier. “Frameworks” are sometimes hard for the PHP fanatic to understand. But before php existed… there was “WebObjects” from Apple which is very similar to “Rails” except you use Java.
9
Very interesting discussions! I have heard a lot about RoR, but I really don’t know what it does. Ditto for WebObjects. PHP I understand as I use that a little (i’m not a programmer) and it seems easy for a novice to do some basic stuff with it. Where might I learn more about the ins and outs of RoR and WO?
10
Sounds fantastic! :)
11
Please keep on blogging about graphical design and less about technical stuff that you apparently don’t understand. Web 2.0 = AJAX? Ruby on Rails made for AJAX?
12
@dennis, I didn’t post the article, Kenneth did. It seems that he hasn’t find the time to place any comment here so far. I’m not commenting or interfering this time, as I’m well aware this isn’t my area. BTW, a more friendly approach couldn’t hurt, thanks.
13
@veerle… right on! @others who flame… Please take the time to carefully read the post and it is obvious that the comments were made by a guest “editor”. He does know his subject. He posted his opinion. You are free to make your own arguments, as some gentle folks have, without attacking either Veerle or Kenneth. There is room for all of your opinions. And finally, I found the original post and the well reasoned rebuttals very interesting and informative. I am open to learn more! ...and Veerle keep up the great work… i learn something every-time i read your informative blog. ciao!
14
Can’t we all just get along? Heh heh. ;-)
15
@cody. mucho cool site ;-)..(had to dig for the link..nice) JRun 4. ok. ciao
16
Don’t waste your time learning PHP Veerle, you’d be much much better off with ColdFusion. It’s easier to work with and certainly much more fun. :) Love your site. Found your Header BG tutorial today and its proven very useful. ;) Thanks!
17
@JJfutbol ...mmhhh i question the comment that Coldfusion is better than PHP… others have more insight?
18
Aye, its not everyone’s cup of tea I’m sure but the only argument (if you can even call it one) is that PHP is free. To me that is not a valid argument to necessarily make PHP better. But for a simple user it can be but in the work place its not good enough. Just make sure Veerle you keep your mind open and not only learn PHP but ColdFusion as well. I’m sure you will find ColdFusion not only easier to get things done with but also more fun. :) Always enjoy your CSS postings. Your work is always top notch. Keep it up.
19
does coldfusion work with mySQL? do most bloging cms software work with CF?
20
Yes MySQL does work with CF. There are many Blogging software built with CF that are available for free. Probably the most widely used is Ray Camden’s Blogger. Then there is another one built in CF but uses XML for storage by an italian developer.
21
About the Ajax presentation. What were you hoping to get out of the presentation (which I didn’t attend), why were you disappointed. I’m looking to make a presentation myself, and hope to get some pointers of what people (developers) want. Thanks.